Discussion
What do we think of this?
Having seen the footage on TV this morning, of the guy mounting the pavement to avoid a parked car, just minutes before he mounted the pavement again, running Cassie over, and having apparently been stopped by the Police the day before, but they were unable to dissuade him from driving.
Quite surprising the Police don't already have this power.
Petition:
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/21244
Nothing to do with age/gender/stereotypes either, it's about giving the Police the power to immediately temporarily suspend a driver.
Are we in?
Having seen the footage on TV this morning, of the guy mounting the pavement to avoid a parked car, just minutes before he mounted the pavement again, running Cassie over, and having apparently been stopped by the Police the day before, but they were unable to dissuade him from driving.
Quite surprising the Police don't already have this power.
Petition:
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/21244
Nothing to do with age/gender/stereotypes either, it's about giving the Police the power to immediately temporarily suspend a driver.
Are we in?
Johnnytheboy said:
joewilliams said:
Any law given a dead child's name by the media is probably a bad kneejerk idea.
This.On there she made an excellent case for it. The jist is, "If someone is judged medically unfit to drive, give the police more powers to stop them." However, it is unlikely that a petition with this name would get the media exposure needed to gain the required number of signatures, so they've gone with an emotive one.
It is a shame, because I wholeheartedly agree with this petition. I've signed it anyway...
Balmoral Green said:
The video footage of his driving in unbelievable, he really is Mr Magoo.
I saw the footage this morning.It is enough to make you angry that no one was legally able to stop him.
here it is - SFW, it is his driving on CCTV before the accident, not the accident itself.
Edited by Dimski on Wednesday 18th January 14:48
Dimski said:
AJS- said:
Sad to say, not with the police and judges that we currently have.
The Police did try to persude him, but legally were not able to do anymore than that.That's why I signed it. I am in favour of it, even if the name and description are a bit emotive.
It's a bit like saying the police knew someone was a wrong un so they should have the power to lock them up without trial. It might well be true in many cases, but in reality it is not a decent way to run a free country. There are such offences as Dangerous Driving and Driving Without Due Care & Attention, and if prosecuted they can lead to revoking a licence in extreme cases. I believe that is enough.
With the amount of cars on the road some accidents are completely inevitable, and in some way or another nearly all of them will be caused by negligence, incompetence or outright stupidity. The law must strike a balance between taking reasonable steps to prevent or mitigate these and allowing people to go about their lawful business, and must also keep in mind the human failings of those who enforce it - the police. Not a dig at the police, just an acknowledgement that they are human. Giving one policeman the power to suspend someone from driving (for how long?) without any due process beyond his own on the spot judgement is an affront to the second and third of those objectives.
Forget the case for a moment and ask "Do you think any policeman should be able to hand down an indefinite driving ban on the spot?" It's hard to forget the case at hand, but I don't think many people would say yes to it.
I saw this a few days ago and i dont think we should do it. Police should not be judge and jury, the role of the Police is to build evidence and put it to a court - not to suspend licences whenever they see fit.
A bit of back story to this specific case is the elderly gentleman in question had apparently been driving poorly in front of police at a petrol station a few days earlier and allegedly the Police told him they felt he should stop driving. Surely whatever he did couldn't have been THAT bad or he'd have been arrested for being unfit to drive surely?
Secondly, even if they did remove his licence theres no guarantee he wouldn't have got in the car (or a car of some description) and run the girl over anyway.
A bit of back story to this specific case is the elderly gentleman in question had apparently been driving poorly in front of police at a petrol station a few days earlier and allegedly the Police told him they felt he should stop driving. Surely whatever he did couldn't have been THAT bad or he'd have been arrested for being unfit to drive surely?
Secondly, even if they did remove his licence theres no guarantee he wouldn't have got in the car (or a car of some description) and run the girl over anyway.
Balmoral Green said:
Are we in?
Yes. I don't often sign e-petitions but i see no reason why the police wouldn't be allowed to stop someone who failed an eye eyst drive. If I failed a roadside breath test they could legally stop me driving. Fail road side eye test, stopped from driving till you take a proper eye test with an optician and demonstrate that you are fine.
Simple.
davepoth said:
The police aren't doctors.
Perhaps it would be more useful if the police, when spying some old dodderer driving terribly, could serve some sort of order that requires them to be checked over by a doctor ASAP. Obviously if the dodderer is deemed to be hopeless this can be passed on to the DVLA. Doesn't really help if they seem reasonably acute in a clinic and become a complete hazard when they're actually behind the wheel though... Currently at 70 you sign a form saying 'i'm fit to drive, honest!!' and they renew your licence. Surely there should be something more indepth? Maybe not a driving test but something to judge reactions and competance. I've spoken to people of that sort of age who take 5 minutes to remember where they live, how can they be expected to react to things on the road?
I can see where Cassie's mother is coming from, as far as she's concerned her daughter is gone and if the Police were allowed to take him off the road earlier then she wouldnt be. But its not as simple as that, in order for the Police to do that they'd need to bypass courts, democracy and due process. Thats not the Police's job. When your child has been taken from you its easy - and understandable - to develop a mentality of 'screw freedom, democracy, due process, just take everyone off the road who's a slight risk, dont bother waiting for courts, just do it!!!' but its not practical. For a start the cornerstone of justice in this country is the fact you cant punish somebody before they've done something. You cant put someone in prison for murder before they've done it, for instance.
Its small steps from here to a full scale Police state where they can arrest anybody they want because they 'look a bit funny' and we dont want to go down that road. One young girl is dead, its a shame, a tragedy even and i dont expect the mother to ever understand this but thats the collateral damage of a free society.
And to reiterate a previous posters point, if you asked 'in the light of Cassie's death, do you feel Police should have the right to remove driving licences?' plenty will say yes. However if you word it 'should any police officer have the right to remove somebodies driving licence despite no offence having been committed and without any due process or court appearences?' and i reckon 99% would say no.
I can see where Cassie's mother is coming from, as far as she's concerned her daughter is gone and if the Police were allowed to take him off the road earlier then she wouldnt be. But its not as simple as that, in order for the Police to do that they'd need to bypass courts, democracy and due process. Thats not the Police's job. When your child has been taken from you its easy - and understandable - to develop a mentality of 'screw freedom, democracy, due process, just take everyone off the road who's a slight risk, dont bother waiting for courts, just do it!!!' but its not practical. For a start the cornerstone of justice in this country is the fact you cant punish somebody before they've done something. You cant put someone in prison for murder before they've done it, for instance.
Its small steps from here to a full scale Police state where they can arrest anybody they want because they 'look a bit funny' and we dont want to go down that road. One young girl is dead, its a shame, a tragedy even and i dont expect the mother to ever understand this but thats the collateral damage of a free society.
And to reiterate a previous posters point, if you asked 'in the light of Cassie's death, do you feel Police should have the right to remove driving licences?' plenty will say yes. However if you word it 'should any police officer have the right to remove somebodies driving licence despite no offence having been committed and without any due process or court appearences?' and i reckon 99% would say no.
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