Head gaskets. Isn't there something better?

[anonymous-user]

A friends car has just died due to a head gasket which has got me thinking, why hasn't this weakness been designed out of engines by now as it is such a critical seal to any engine? Or has modern head gasket design now improved so it happens less frequently?

Is it possible to manufacture a combined block and head and still install all of the valves and pistons?

[wackojacko]

Interesting question, I have often wondered different options myself.


The fundamental problems with a combined set up would be :
- Manufacturing costs would be more than triple
- If something did go wrong you'd need and entire new engine


There are performance triple layer metal head gaskets which are the buts apparently but then they are more expensive than a paper gasket by a long way, in terms of marketing if it works for say 100K miles anymore than that the Manufactuerer doesn't careless infact to redo it you'll be buying from them or similar again in parts department so it's a small level parts reassurance if things do go wrong I suppose.

[Special K]

The gasket failing is usually down to another problem so it's not as simple as you may think.

[Petrolhead_Rich]

Car overheats....

your head has warped so its £500 for it skimming and refitting

vs

your combined head/block has warped/cracked so its £3k for a new engine


plus fitting valves through the bottom of the engine would be difficult, to look at some issues instead of just popping the head off, its an engine out and full strip...

I'll keep a flimsy head gasket thanks (I've never had one fail, not even on the two K-Series powered cars I've owned!

[MattYorke]

Steyr engines are a monoblock - head and block a single casting, although IIRC the crankcase is a seperate component.
http://www.steyr-motors.com/home/

[Classic Grad 98]

Head gaskets are very effective. On a modern engine they are usually fit-for-life on a well maintained car and barring any thermostat failures.

[eldar]

2 stroke?

[Classic Grad 98]

eldar said:

2 stroke?

Like to see one of those go 150,000 miles with no repair work...

[Ritchie335is]

I seem to remember that one old big diesel manufacturer (Gardner IIRC) were so confident of there machining that they didn't use a gasket and it was a face to face seal.
Sounds a bit far fetched to me but I definitly saw it on TV years ago so it must be true.

[POORCARDEALER]

911 engines were metal to metal fit, they leaked like a sieve

[anonymous-user]

I suggested a combined head and block with the knowledge that it would be expensive, I just didn't know if it could be done. Seems it can be done, interesting. As said, maybe modern engines are better than the older engines I'm used to hearing about.

[Classic Grad 98]

POORCARDEALER said:

911 engines were metal to metal fit, they leaked like a sieve

Really? You are talking about the head gaskets here aren't you?

[Eighteeteewhy]

POORCARDEALER said:

911 engines were metal to metal fit, they leaked like a sieve

Leaked what?

[Petrolhead_Rich]

Classic Grad 98 said:

POORCARDEALER said:

911 engines were metal to metal fit, they leaked like a sieve

Really? You are talking about the head gaskets here aren't you?

Perhaps that's the reason his leaked, it didn't have one?

[Classic Grad 98]

Petrolhead_Rich said:

Classic Grad 98 said:

POORCARDEALER said:

911 engines were metal to metal fit, they leaked like a sieve

Really? You are talking about the head gaskets here aren't you?

Perhaps that's the reason his leaked, it didn't have one?

Well obviously a 911 would have two head gaskets if any!
I have never heard of this so wondering if POORCARDEALER was getting mixed up with some other engine gasket. Apparently not.

[eldar]

Classic Grad 98 said:

Like to see one of those go 150,000 miles with no repair work...

Most wont have a failed head gasket...

[POORCARDEALER]

Classic Grad 98 said:

Petrolhead_Rich said:

Classic Grad 98 said:

POORCARDEALER said:

911 engines were metal to metal fit, they leaked like a sieve

Really? You are talking about the head gaskets here aren't you?

Perhaps that's the reason his leaked, it didn't have one?

Well obviously a 911 would have two head gaskets if any!
I have never heard of this so wondering if POORCARDEALER was getting mixed up with some other engine gasket. Apparently not.

Could be getting confused BUT I remember selling a 964 a many years ago and we ended up having to get the engine sorted due to oil leaks....think IIRC technician said there wasnt a gasket where the heads joined the block.....metal to metal

[davepoth]

Monoblock engines were common years ago - it was the development of head gaskets that rendered them obsolete except for the most ridiculously high compression engines.

[iva cosworth]

POORCARDEALER said:

Classic Grad 98 said:

Petrolhead_Rich said:

Classic Grad 98 said:

POORCARDEALER said:

911 engines were metal to metal fit, they leaked like a sieve

Really? You are talking about the head gaskets here aren't you?

Perhaps that's the reason his leaked, it didn't have one?

Well obviously a 911 would have two head gaskets if any!
I have never heard of this so wondering if POORCARDEALER was getting mixed up with some other engine gasket. Apparently not.

Could be getting confused BUT I remember selling a 964 a many years ago and we ended up having to get the engine sorted due to oil leaks....think IIRC technician said there wasnt a gasket where the heads joined the block.....metal to metal

I think what some of the above is getting at is that there is no water in an old 911 engine.

Aircooled anyone ?

[Classic Grad 98]

eldar said:

Classic Grad 98 said:

Like to see one of those go 150,000 miles with no repair work...

Most wont have a failed head gasket...

Nope I'll give you that, but it will have bores that you could see your face in...