Late 90s XJ8 - Talk to me
Discussion
Got my eye on a Jag XJ8 4.0 as a possible next purchase. Had been looking at 2.8 Audi A4 Quattros but then saw one of these Jags for sale and couldn't believe I could buy and insure one within my theoretical budget.
Thing is, what will a big cat like this be like to run? The fuel bill won't be much of an issue due to limited mileage but what about reliability? Is it going to rape my wallet faster than I can say "ok, this may have been ambitious"? I'd have imagined old Jags to be pretty bulletproof things that'll run forever, but that's just me trying to justify it now, what's the truth?
Looking at examples such as this which will be at the top end of my £2700 budget once insurance is taken care of for a year. Am I mental thinking I could buy one and run it pretty much trouble free?
Thanks in advance, really hope my current car sells quickly now I've discovered these!
Thing is, what will a big cat like this be like to run? The fuel bill won't be much of an issue due to limited mileage but what about reliability? Is it going to rape my wallet faster than I can say "ok, this may have been ambitious"? I'd have imagined old Jags to be pretty bulletproof things that'll run forever, but that's just me trying to justify it now, what's the truth?
Looking at examples such as this which will be at the top end of my £2700 budget once insurance is taken care of for a year. Am I mental thinking I could buy one and run it pretty much trouble free?
Thanks in advance, really hope my current car sells quickly now I've discovered these!
I'd be inclined to look at post '95 XJ6s rather than the V8 X300s. The 6 cylinder engine is very reliable and whilst it doesn't have quite the same power as the V8 it's certainly more than adequate and the fuel economy is a little better. Or there's always the XJR if you fancy more than 300bhp.
If you do go for the V8, make sure that the timing chain tensioners have been upgraded to the latest type. If the engine rattles after a cold start walk away as they'll need changing, and at that price it could cost nearly as much as the car.
The Nicasil issue isn't really a concern with the 4.0 V8 engines now - any that were going to fail would have done so by now, so the chances of having a problem are very remote. A blowby test can be done if you are worried.
Both the 6 cylinder and the V8 are very good cars.
If you do go for the V8, make sure that the timing chain tensioners have been upgraded to the latest type. If the engine rattles after a cold start walk away as they'll need changing, and at that price it could cost nearly as much as the car.
The Nicasil issue isn't really a concern with the 4.0 V8 engines now - any that were going to fail would have done so by now, so the chances of having a problem are very remote. A blowby test can be done if you are worried.
Both the 6 cylinder and the V8 are very good cars.
Edited by jagnet on Sunday 29th January 23:13
Whichever you choose - straight 6 or V8 it's essential to buy the very best example you can find. That means not just buying on price or exact spec you want alone and will often mean scouring the Classifieds or PH for a really well maintained one rather then just buying the first example you see an a dealers forecourt.
I've had both 6 and 8 cylinder cars long term and all other things being equal my choice would be V8 everytime. It's a much more sophisticated, refined car to drive and is lighter and far quicker then the equivalent straight 6. Several people will tell you the V8 is not as reliable as the 6 and it's true there are some well known issues such as Nicasil coating, water pump and throttle body failure on the pre 2000 cars as well as the need for upgrading the secondary timing chain tensioners for the mk3 metal bodied design and changing the gearbox oil on all the 1998-2002 V8 cars. Find one with all this done and providing you take care of it it'll be just as durable as the earlier 6 cyl cars.
Parts are reasonably cheap, good quality tyres can be had for around £450 a set, earlier cars fall into the cheaper VED rate based on engine size not emissions and insurance can be reasonable too. A 3.2V8 will give up to 28MPG if driven sensibily on a long run and drop to around 22-24 in normal use.
Look for uneven wear on front tyres (wishbone bushes), rust behind front shocks, front jacking points, under screen rubbers and rear wheel arches.
Check car tracks straight, brakes evenly without judder and V8 gearchanges and drive take up are silky smooth and instant (potential gearbox problems). Listen for any trace of rattle on cold start up (mk 1 timing chain tensioners, the mk 2 design fails silently) and look inside the oil filler cap for clean bright engine components. Most high milers will have a trace of axle whine, rattly rear shock bushes and there will be some wear on the drivers seat.
Old XJ's are either a bargain and lovely cars to own and drive or a complete nightmare that'll bleed you white. As with any 10 year old plus car you've got to find a good one and take care of it.
I've had both 6 and 8 cylinder cars long term and all other things being equal my choice would be V8 everytime. It's a much more sophisticated, refined car to drive and is lighter and far quicker then the equivalent straight 6. Several people will tell you the V8 is not as reliable as the 6 and it's true there are some well known issues such as Nicasil coating, water pump and throttle body failure on the pre 2000 cars as well as the need for upgrading the secondary timing chain tensioners for the mk3 metal bodied design and changing the gearbox oil on all the 1998-2002 V8 cars. Find one with all this done and providing you take care of it it'll be just as durable as the earlier 6 cyl cars.
Parts are reasonably cheap, good quality tyres can be had for around £450 a set, earlier cars fall into the cheaper VED rate based on engine size not emissions and insurance can be reasonable too. A 3.2V8 will give up to 28MPG if driven sensibily on a long run and drop to around 22-24 in normal use.
Look for uneven wear on front tyres (wishbone bushes), rust behind front shocks, front jacking points, under screen rubbers and rear wheel arches.
Check car tracks straight, brakes evenly without judder and V8 gearchanges and drive take up are silky smooth and instant (potential gearbox problems). Listen for any trace of rattle on cold start up (mk 1 timing chain tensioners, the mk 2 design fails silently) and look inside the oil filler cap for clean bright engine components. Most high milers will have a trace of axle whine, rattly rear shock bushes and there will be some wear on the drivers seat.
Old XJ's are either a bargain and lovely cars to own and drive or a complete nightmare that'll bleed you white. As with any 10 year old plus car you've got to find a good one and take care of it.
Maybe worth noting that they wear out suspension fairly quick. Front subframe bushes and rear A frame bushes are common as well as front arms and rear shock absorbers and not as common but still happens are front coil springs snapping. Also ignition coils and front radiator hoses are prone to fail.
I would budget for at least a couple of hundred for yearly maintenance.
I would budget for at least a couple of hundred for yearly maintenance.
McSam said:
I'm quite interested in this myself, and some great info coming out here, good work! 
There's a old thread by Broadbean747 in the Jaguar forum that covers all the XJ8 issues and relevent model year and VIN numbers.Briefly:
The earlier V8 engines fitted to cars up to around late 1999 with VINs ending in 6 numbers have a engine with Nicasil bore linings, fragile waterpump and throttle body.
Nicasil coating erosion has been done to death on PH and was caused by pre January 2000 high Sulphur content (up to 150ppm) fuel and repeated short trips which allowed Sulphuric acid to build up in the oil and etch the bore coating away leading to a loss of compression. Jaguar (and BMW) replaced several engines under warranty. If a Nicasil engine has survived to now there will be no concerns.
Most throttle bodies will have been changed. Jaguar issued a recall and TSB as this was a serious saftey issue due to the actuating motor being unable to overcome high engine vacuum under certain circumstances leading to a complete loss of power and engine stalling.
Early waterpumps had plastic impellor blades which fell off leading to overheating, blown headgaskets and hoses.
All these issues were addressd in the 2000 model year which have VINs ending in a letter and then 5 numbers. Steel liners, upgraded waterpump with metal impellor and a much better throttle body.
What was not addressed at the time as it had not yet become a problem was weak plastic bodied secondary timing chain tensioners. Both the mk1 and 2 plastic types disintigrate and fail. The solution is to fit the later mk3 metal bodied type. No 1998-2002 XJ8 left the factory with metal bodied tensioners so you have to assume the plastic type - either mk2 or 2 are fitted. Easy enough to check just take the o/s cam cover off and look. If you have a bill post 2003 for replacement tensioners then you may have metal bodied ones retrofitted. If bolts are itemised on the bill along with part numbers C2A1512 and C2A1511 then you have, if not assume they are plastic and change them.
The only other XJ8 specific concerns are "sealed for life" gearboxes. The oil can and should be changed at around 50k and then 30-40k intervalls. If this is done the box is unlikley to cause any problems even at high miles - if not chances are it'll go pop at anything over 80k as the foreward clutch pack disintigrates.
XJ8's have one serious corrosion issue too. Just behind the front shock there's a reinforcing plate where the front subframe is bolted via a V mount to the chassis rail. Some - not all - of these trap water and corrode badly to the extent that it'll fail an MOT and the subframe has to be dropped to carry out repairs. Easy enough to spot on full lock - have a poke about with a screwdriver.
Bear in mind the youngest XJ8 is 10 years old now, but if looked after a V8 XJ should be capable of very high miles and good reliability - and is a much nicer car to own and drive then the earlier 6 cyl ones.
Jaguar steve said:
McSam said:
I'm quite interested in this myself, and some great info coming out here, good work!
There's a old thread by Broadbean747 in the Jaguar forum that covers all the XJ8 issues and relevent model year and VIN numbers.Briefly:
The earlier V8 engines fitted to cars up to around late 1999 with VINs ending in 6 numbers have a engine with Nicasil bore linings, fragile waterpump and throttle body.
Nicasil coating erosion has been done to death on PH and was caused by pre January 2000 high Sulphur content (up to 150ppm) fuel and repeated short trips which allowed Sulphuric acid to build up in the oil and etch the bore coating away leading to a loss of compression. Jaguar (and BMW) replaced several engines under warranty. If a Nicasil engine has survived to now there will be no concerns.
Most throttle bodies will have been changed. Jaguar issued a recall and TSB as this was a serious saftey issue due to the actuating motor being unable to overcome high engine vacuum under certain circumstances leading to a complete loss of power and engine stalling.
Early waterpumps had plastic impellor blades which fell off leading to overheating, blown headgaskets and hoses.
All these issues were addressd in the 2000 model year which have VINs ending in a letter and then 5 numbers. Steel liners, upgraded waterpump with metal impellor and a much better throttle body.
What was not addressed at the time as it had not yet become a problem was weak plastic bodied secondary timing chain tensioners. Both the mk1 and 2 plastic types disintigrate and fail. The solution is to fit the later mk3 metal bodied type. No 1998-2002 XJ8 left the factory with metal bodied tensioners so you have to assume the plastic type - either mk2 or 2 are fitted. Easy enough to check just take the o/s cam cover off and look. If you have a bill post 2003 for replacement tensioners then you may have metal bodied ones retrofitted. If bolts are itemised on the bill along with part numbers C2A1512 and C2A1511 then you have, if not assume they are plastic and change them.
The only other XJ8 specific concerns are "sealed for life" gearboxes. The oil can and should be changed at around 50k and then 30-40k intervalls. If this is done the box is unlikley to cause any problems even at high miles - if not chances are it'll go pop at anything over 80k as the foreward clutch pack disintigrates.
XJ8's have one serious corrosion issue too. Just behind the front shock there's a reinforcing plate where the front subframe is bolted via a V mount to the chassis rail. Some - not all - of these trap water and corrode badly to the extent that it'll fail an MOT and the subframe has to be dropped to carry out repairs. Easy enough to spot on full lock - have a poke about with a screwdriver.
Bear in mind the youngest XJ8 is 10 years old now, but if looked after a V8 XJ should be capable of very high miles and good reliability - and is a much nicer car to own and drive then the earlier 6 cyl ones.
I've just sold my 1999 3.2 Sport, it was allways reliable and I never had any problems occur, sold it via ebay to a chap from Germany who picked up and drove home to Munich without a hitch.
Mine did 22mpg commuting to work through town with a bit of A road and I managed 29.9 on a run once,much better than the 740 thats replaced it and less likely to go wrong too I think,get one bought, a 4.0 sov if I ever get one again.
Mine did 22mpg commuting to work through town with a bit of A road and I managed 29.9 on a run once,much better than the 740 thats replaced it and less likely to go wrong too I think,get one bought, a 4.0 sov if I ever get one again.
Wow thanks for all the info guys! Especially Jaguar Steve (and originally Broadbean747), great report. 
Well I guess that makes me feel a bit better, I was expecting people to say that it will most definitely ruin my life. I've worked out I should be able to budget for one, so long as I can get a decent one - avoiding the problems stated above - that doesn't go pop at least in the near future. Should be able to build a little fund around Easter time when I'm off uni and can go back to work.
These chain tensioners, if they're not done, is it a big/expensive job? Obviously I'll try to look for one that's had the work done but as a worst case scenario, how complex is it?
Cheers again for the advice guys, quite the idea of one now, very much doubt the parents will
Well I guess that makes me feel a bit better, I was expecting people to say that it will most definitely ruin my life. I've worked out I should be able to budget for one, so long as I can get a decent one - avoiding the problems stated above - that doesn't go pop at least in the near future. Should be able to build a little fund around Easter time when I'm off uni and can go back to work.
These chain tensioners, if they're not done, is it a big/expensive job? Obviously I'll try to look for one that's had the work done but as a worst case scenario, how complex is it?
Cheers again for the advice guys, quite the idea of one now, very much doubt the parents will
722Adam said:
Wow thanks for all the info guys! Especially Jaguar Steve (and originally Broadbean747), great report.
Well I guess that makes me feel a bit better, I was expecting people to say that it will most definitely ruin my life. I've worked out I should be able to budget for one, so long as I can get a decent one - avoiding the problems stated above - that doesn't go pop at least in the near future. Should be able to build a little fund around Easter time when I'm off uni and can go back to work.
These chain tensioners, if they're not done, is it a big/expensive job? Obviously I'll try to look for one that's had the work done but as a worst case scenario, how complex is it?
Cheers again for the advice guys, quite the idea of one now, very much doubt the parents will
There are two seperate issues here.Well I guess that makes me feel a bit better, I was expecting people to say that it will most definitely ruin my life. I've worked out I should be able to budget for one, so long as I can get a decent one - avoiding the problems stated above - that doesn't go pop at least in the near future. Should be able to build a little fund around Easter time when I'm off uni and can go back to work.
These chain tensioners, if they're not done, is it a big/expensive job? Obviously I'll try to look for one that's had the work done but as a worst case scenario, how complex is it?
Cheers again for the advice guys, quite the idea of one now, very much doubt the parents will
The first is premature disintigration of the plastic bodied secondary tensioners.
The second is general wear in all the valve timing gear.
Almost every garage you talk to will capitalise on the tensioner issue and imply all the timing chains, slippers and both primary and secondary tensioners are in need of changing. This means a lot more profit for them and peace of mind that they won't be accused of only doing half the work should somthing go tits up later.
In some cases they may well be right - if a car has had oil changes neglected and / or covered a massive mileage then there will be some wear in the valve timing gear, just like there will be some wear in all the other engine components. The best way to judge is take the cam covers off and look inside. If you see bright clean metal and feel there's no wear on the cam sprockets or slack in the chains and the guides are all smooth then it's hard to justify changing everything. If on the other hand the chains are slack, the sprockets are ragged and the whole inside of the engine is covered in a tarry deposit from contaminated oil then it's best to assume every part of the valve timing gear is worn and decide what to do.
Changing secondary tensioners alone is a fairly simple DIY job. You can hire the cam and ring gear locking tools from the Jaguar Enthusiasts' Club, and the parts can be bought on ebay or from any Jaguar spares supplier for about £80/90. If money is tight and you are happy to buy 20/30/40000 miles of peace of mind then I've seen brand new mk2 plastic bodied tensioners for sale on ebay for just a few quid each. Not ideal but safer than not doing anything at all.
A Jaguar indy could not reasonably charge any more than a couple of hours labour for changing just the secondary tensioners.
You should be able to get everything done for a grand or so - that is not really a DIY proposition as you need serious air tool power and a strong puller to get the crank sprocket off and you're going quite deep into the front of the engine needing experience and ability to get it all back together without bits missing and oil pissing everywhere.
Of course you may be fortunate. You might find a car with all the work done.
You may never have a problem with plastic tensioners. You might take the view that - well, it's a cheap car, I've had some use out of it and if it goes pop then get a mate to tow it to the scrapyard.
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