What's up with the Italians?
Discussion
I'm a big fan of Italian cars, as in general, they have style and bags of personality (even if the engineering/build quality isn't always up to the standards of other manufacturers) but what's going on with the affordable Italian car at the moment?
Fiat: with the 500, they have the perfect product despite its flaws (stylish, personalisable and affordable), the Panda has always been decent for what it is (although with the facelift, as with many cars, it has lost some character), the Punto Evo is pretty much an also-ran in the supermini sector (and looked better as the Grande Punto) and nothing else really figures on the radar. I know that Fiat have never done large cars very well but the Uno was always a good seller, the original Punto was stylish and spacious compared to everything else at the time and the Tipo, 90s Bravo/Brava, Coupe and barchetta were also pretty interesting.
Alfa Romeo: I've always liked the 159 but apparently it's no longer being made (are they planning to replace it?), which leaves only 2 cars, the MiTo which is a car that I would have considered buying had it been available with 5 doors and the Giulietta which by all accounts is a good car (but is it as good as a Golf?) and isn't quite as pretty as its predecessor (147). Admittedly the 4C looks pretty stunning but is a £40k coupe really the way to go? Surely a Scirocco/Peugeot RCZ competitor for around £25k would have been a better idea.
Lancia: I would love a Lancia and by all accounts the Ypsilon and Delta will become available in the UK as Chryslers. I know it's only a badge but I can't understand why they're not being marketed as Lancias. Chrysler is an unloved brand in the UK, whereas the prospect of something stylish, Italian and affordable would hold a lot of appeal for many I'm sure. Even the 300C might work as a Lancia (Thema?). A poor mans Quattroporte if you will?
Am I alone in thinking this? What's happened to all the cool, affordable Italian cars?
Fiat: with the 500, they have the perfect product despite its flaws (stylish, personalisable and affordable), the Panda has always been decent for what it is (although with the facelift, as with many cars, it has lost some character), the Punto Evo is pretty much an also-ran in the supermini sector (and looked better as the Grande Punto) and nothing else really figures on the radar. I know that Fiat have never done large cars very well but the Uno was always a good seller, the original Punto was stylish and spacious compared to everything else at the time and the Tipo, 90s Bravo/Brava, Coupe and barchetta were also pretty interesting.
Alfa Romeo: I've always liked the 159 but apparently it's no longer being made (are they planning to replace it?), which leaves only 2 cars, the MiTo which is a car that I would have considered buying had it been available with 5 doors and the Giulietta which by all accounts is a good car (but is it as good as a Golf?) and isn't quite as pretty as its predecessor (147). Admittedly the 4C looks pretty stunning but is a £40k coupe really the way to go? Surely a Scirocco/Peugeot RCZ competitor for around £25k would have been a better idea.
Lancia: I would love a Lancia and by all accounts the Ypsilon and Delta will become available in the UK as Chryslers. I know it's only a badge but I can't understand why they're not being marketed as Lancias. Chrysler is an unloved brand in the UK, whereas the prospect of something stylish, Italian and affordable would hold a lot of appeal for many I'm sure. Even the 300C might work as a Lancia (Thema?). A poor mans Quattroporte if you will?
Am I alone in thinking this? What's happened to all the cool, affordable Italian cars?
Yes indeed. Fiat group need more models they don't actually have all that much to offer really. The 159 has been replaced by the upcoming Giulia which has heavily delayed, apparently the boss of AR himself delayed it for,not being pretty enough, it'll be a while till that comes out. I drove a giulieta clover leaf and was at least as good as a mk6 gti, but would your money go into it? The car sold brilliantly just after release and has been a huge success for AR but sales have dropped off now I think everyone who wanted one has one now. MiTo is now getting on, is not pretty enough or good enough to be a proper mini competitor. The cloverleaf is fast-ish but the suspension wiggles about too much.
I too don't understand the LanciaChrysler thing. I asked the UK sales director and he said it was because they are not confident enough in the Lancia brand and Chrysler is more familiar to the target market, which is old people. The cars are good, especially the Delta and are really nice inside.
AR are better off without the 159. As pretty as it is, it just was just too heavy to feel like an AR, more of a steamroller it was just disappointing.
So it is weird Its a shame that Fiat group can't really seem to offer much to the UK and the roads are a duller place for it
I too don't understand the LanciaChrysler thing. I asked the UK sales director and he said it was because they are not confident enough in the Lancia brand and Chrysler is more familiar to the target market, which is old people. The cars are good, especially the Delta and are really nice inside.
AR are better off without the 159. As pretty as it is, it just was just too heavy to feel like an AR, more of a steamroller it was just disappointing.
So it is weird Its a shame that Fiat group can't really seem to offer much to the UK and the roads are a duller place for it
GT - Brera
147 - MiTo/Giulietta
156 - 159
GTV - ???
I personally think the current range is a big step down from the previous lot. Of all the cars that they make, only the 159 appealed to me more than its predecessor, but even those lack decent engines.
They get bonus points for the 8C though.
147 - MiTo/Giulietta
156 - 159
GTV - ???
I personally think the current range is a big step down from the previous lot. Of all the cars that they make, only the 159 appealed to me more than its predecessor, but even those lack decent engines.
They get bonus points for the 8C though.
flatline84 said:
they went FWD. Alfa 75 and GTV6 being the last proper alfas.
The V6 alfas up until the GM lump will always be lovely automobiles but there will always be a BUT as long as they are FWD..
Why must there be a "but"? Or are you of the misguided belief that a FWD Alfa can't be a proper driver's car?The V6 alfas up until the GM lump will always be lovely automobiles but there will always be a BUT as long as they are FWD..
Symbolica said:
GT - Brera
147 - MiTo/Giulietta
156 - 159
GTV - ???
I personally think the current range is a big step down from the previous lot. Of all the cars that they make, only the 159 appealed to me more than its predecessor, but even those lack decent engines.
They get bonus points for the 8C though.
Fairy nuff, having owned a 156 and driven 159's I always preferred the 156 in everything but looks, and the older car was hardly a munter... The 159 was a heavy old beast and imho never FELT like an Alfa.147 - MiTo/Giulietta
156 - 159
GTV - ???
I personally think the current range is a big step down from the previous lot. Of all the cars that they make, only the 159 appealed to me more than its predecessor, but even those lack decent engines.
They get bonus points for the 8C though.
Anyhoo, yes 8C....
I know a lot don't like it, but for me, easily in the top 5 best looking cars everwhite_goodman said:
Alfa Romeo: I've always liked the 159 but apparently it's no longer being made (are they planning to replace it?)
Being replaced with the Giulia, will be built sharing some chrsler bits white_goodman said:
the Giulietta which by all accounts is a good car (but is it as good as a Golf?)
Sigh (although should I be expecting a whoosh parrot?)robsco said:
flatline84 said:
they went FWD. Alfa 75 and GTV6 being the last proper alfas.
The V6 alfas up until the GM lump will always be lovely automobiles but there will always be a BUT as long as they are FWD..
Why must there be a "but"? Or are you of the misguided belief that a FWD Alfa can't be a proper driver's car?The V6 alfas up until the GM lump will always be lovely automobiles but there will always be a BUT as long as they are FWD..
I welcome the day when Alfa or Masserati adopt the Chrsyler LX RWD platform (ex Mercedes) for their bigger enthusiast offerings.
Until then the bigger Alfas are just pretty, competent cars that have zero Alfa DNA. If that isn't seen you have to ask youself if you're a true Alfisti
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