Learner drivers
Discussion
Ok this isn't a bash the learner thread, but what i saw today amazed me.
Learner on a NSL road, now this road is tight and twisty, so 40 is a more reasonable speed, but this woman never got over 20.
Twice the instructor pulled the wheel to get her back 100% on our side of the road as she was approaching oncoming traffic while over the centre lines.
On tight bends instead of doing the usual 15 or 20, she was crawling that slow she almost stalled, she also braked whenever a car went the opposite direction.
Now i know learners have to practice, but why don't car drivers undergo something like the CBT for bikes?
Make them drive round a course set out like a road but on private property, and get them used to other traffic and basic driving before letting them out on the road?
Ok, let the flaming begin
Learner on a NSL road, now this road is tight and twisty, so 40 is a more reasonable speed, but this woman never got over 20.
Twice the instructor pulled the wheel to get her back 100% on our side of the road as she was approaching oncoming traffic while over the centre lines.
On tight bends instead of doing the usual 15 or 20, she was crawling that slow she almost stalled, she also braked whenever a car went the opposite direction.
Now i know learners have to practice, but why don't car drivers undergo something like the CBT for bikes?
Make them drive round a course set out like a road but on private property, and get them used to other traffic and basic driving before letting them out on the road?
Ok, let the flaming begin
Thought that too a few times but I suppose space and cost of it would always be a big factor to most test facilities or instructors/franchises.
Was behind a learner today going through Oxfordshire, to be honest they seemed quite capable, well enough to move onto motorways and NSL dual carriageways at comfortable pace. However about 4 lane changes before the entrance and not a single nudge on the indicator. Amazed me.
Was behind a learner today going through Oxfordshire, to be honest they seemed quite capable, well enough to move onto motorways and NSL dual carriageways at comfortable pace. However about 4 lane changes before the entrance and not a single nudge on the indicator. Amazed me.
We all have to start somewhere true, and I always try and be patient. However the total absense of confidence in some does startle me. Surely it is not in the best interest of a). The learner and b). Everone else that someone that is so frightened of the whole set up gains confidence somewhere less risky?
*Al* said:
More like poor planning by the instructor, if the pupil is not capable they should know!
Exactly, the learner is just doing what they are told. They don't want to be in that situation any more than any one wants them to be there, they are probably getting very nervous about the queue they are causing.It's the instructors responsibility to make sure the environment is correct for the learner. You don't play a symphony the first time you sit at a piano.
jimxms said:
Throwing learner drivers in at the deep end doesn't do anyone any favors imo. It just frustrates normal drivers and makes nervous learners even more nervous. I would have much rather have had my first 2-3 lessons in a closed car park or private road somewhere.
Agreed. One of the driving schools round here regularly takes learners down a road which is pretty quiet except for an hour either side of school finishing (there's a secondary school on the road). You often drive along this road to find a learner stalled in the middle of a three-point turn, blocking the road completely. Queues of cars either side, and the instructor appears to be doing lots of talking but there are no attempts to restart the car. Instruction is good - but can we please get the car moving and at least clear one side of the road quickly? Get the three-point turn finished and then pull over to discuss it, if you must discuss the errors made.Anyway, after a few minutes of nobody going anywhere, eventually the car is moving again. And then the learner dodders off down the road at between 10 and 15 mph, rarely any faster. The lack of experience is clear, but what's more worrying is the fact that the driver is obviously very new to driving - very slow, braking every time another car approaches and stopping for gaps that you could drive a truck through.
There's definitely a case for some basic driver training somewhere quiet (or deserted) before they're let loose on the roads to practise on the rest of us. I have no problems with learner drivers - we all had to learn once. But instructors who blatantly drop them in at the deep end before they've barely mastered clutch control and driving smoothly while not holding up the traffic are just making the learners nervous and annoying the hell out of everyone else. One of these days some impatient sod is going to pull a dangerous overtake after being held up for 10 minutes by one of them.
Oh, and what about all the instructors who aren't teaching their students to indicate at roundabouts where required? Indication at roundabouts seems to be optional in driving school cars these days.
Would it be sensible, in this kind of case (both OP and the '3 point turn stallers'), making a note of the driving school and phoning in to complain about the instructor causing a hazard/obstruction? Not sure if it'd be worth it for roundabouts (so many driving schools, so little time!)
valverguy said:
Couldnt agree more, i have always thought that new drivers should be made to spend 10 hours on a private site before beng aloud on the road, a test to see if the 10 ours is needed first could be one move also....
Many people don't need 10 hours of lessons, never mind 10 hours off road. It's poor judgement on the part of the instructor imo.Just seems like the instructor is at fault really. The student doesn't decide where the lesson takes place and maybe they should have done a bit more practice down the back of an industrial estate or where ever before been allowed to belt it (or not as was the case) down an nsl.
People learn at different rates, the instructors should pick up on this and move on at the appropriate pace and maybe that way then the learner will cause people less bother, but you have to make allowances as they will never be as good as a well seasoned driver and 10 or so hours of tuition on private land probably wont help that much if the student was as nervous on the roads as the op suggests.
People learn at different rates, the instructors should pick up on this and move on at the appropriate pace and maybe that way then the learner will cause people less bother, but you have to make allowances as they will never be as good as a well seasoned driver and 10 or so hours of tuition on private land probably wont help that much if the student was as nervous on the roads as the op suggests.
My wife's a driving instructor, I'll let her read this thread later, should amuse her!
For what it's worth, driving instructing is an impossible job. My wife tells me the tales of people hurling abuse at her and her pupils. She has obscene gestures made at her on a daily basis. She has had people get out their cars and physically attack the car to try and get at the driver! All because she is trying to safely instruct someone on how to drive properly. (Mostly white van man to be honest!). So, I went out with her, pretending to be a pupil with her roof sign on. I had people swerve to overtake me and cut me up, idiots pull out of side turnings not 30 feet in front of me, just so they wouldn't get stuck behind a 'learner'! It honestly scared the life out of me, and I'm an ex rally driver with 25 years driving experience, no crashes or points!
So before everyone has a pop at instructors and or pupils, have a long hard think and examine your approach to learners, as it's not easy for them out there.
That said, I can see some benefit in a couple of hours CBT of sorts before heading out on the roads, but it just isn't practical, there isn't the space or facilities. My wife takes her pupils to a car park at first usually, to master moving off and stopping, but they have to go out on the roads at some point. And they don't all live near nice quiet straight roads where they can practice in peace. Cut them some slack please, and find some patience, we've all been there.
For what it's worth, driving instructing is an impossible job. My wife tells me the tales of people hurling abuse at her and her pupils. She has obscene gestures made at her on a daily basis. She has had people get out their cars and physically attack the car to try and get at the driver! All because she is trying to safely instruct someone on how to drive properly. (Mostly white van man to be honest!). So, I went out with her, pretending to be a pupil with her roof sign on. I had people swerve to overtake me and cut me up, idiots pull out of side turnings not 30 feet in front of me, just so they wouldn't get stuck behind a 'learner'! It honestly scared the life out of me, and I'm an ex rally driver with 25 years driving experience, no crashes or points!
So before everyone has a pop at instructors and or pupils, have a long hard think and examine your approach to learners, as it's not easy for them out there.
That said, I can see some benefit in a couple of hours CBT of sorts before heading out on the roads, but it just isn't practical, there isn't the space or facilities. My wife takes her pupils to a car park at first usually, to master moving off and stopping, but they have to go out on the roads at some point. And they don't all live near nice quiet straight roads where they can practice in peace. Cut them some slack please, and find some patience, we've all been there.
jimmyboy85 said:
10 or so hours of tuition on private land probably wont help that much if the student was as nervous on the roads as the op suggests.
I agree. There is no substitute for real traffic situations, and you only get better at them with practice and exposure.Dan (10PS) even took a little time, albeit half an hour, to get back up to speed with traffic etc after just under 3 years off the road.. and that's after 650,000 miles experience. As you said, different people have different rates of picking things up, and instructors need to recognise this, but so should every driver.
Hymen said:
I totally agree that learners should be kept away from 'busy' routes until they're confident enough to tackle them. My very first lesson with my instructor I remember well, he called at my house and drove me to a quiet residential area before he let me loose. He was a great instructor who instilled confidence in me and thus I passed first time, and he said to me after I'd passed that the examiner had commended him on his work! I still remember his words of wisdom some 15 years later.
This is pretty much same as my learning-to-drive experience too. My instructor would NOT take me out of the very quiet housing estate roads until he saw that I was confident enough to deal with main road traffic. That is exactly how it should be but I never see it happen round here. There's a narrowish semi-rural road near where I live which is basically a rat run up to the outer ring road from the town centre. It's full of ruts, it's poorly lit, it's greasy from the overhanging trees, it has a few blind double bends on hills and is mega busy in the rush hours, but nearly every time I go along there I stumble across a learner driver doing 15mph, clearly out of their depth. Most "driving instructors" these days couldn't teach a kid how to tie his/her shoelaces, never mind someone to drive a car. Hopeless.. 
t!!This has been hinted at, when I did my bike test last year the instructors were a little open about what they have heard regards future for training/tests, like the mod 1 for bikes the thoughts were that there could be something similar on its way for cars for manoeuvres rather than the open road or a sort of CBT type thing, the mod 1 sites are big enough, just what I heard anyway not sure how true it is we had quite a discussion about it over lunch lol
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