petrol or diesel - which way to go?
Discussion
Looking at our sad but generally brilliant old Golf, we have decided it's time to retire her to the quiet sunlit grasslands of ebay, hmm.
Just trying to work out what fuel our next motor should run on, given that we're very much in the murky £5k maximum bracket rather than the bright and shiny bracket of modern, zero tax, 28 million mpg motors.
The missis is philosophically inclined towards diesel, and fancies a BMW 320d Touring. I'd be quite happy with a Touring but am less nailed to the diesel mast, believing that we can get similar fuel consumption from a petrol-engined Touring. Running costs are important, and I know BMW diesels are great for both that and for driving, but I've also read a lot of horror stories about blown turbos, stuck injectors and engine-eating swirl flaps on BMW diesels, any one of which would instantly kill off our bangernomical aspirations.
I think post-08 BMWs suffer less from all these foibles, and I like the Efficient Dynamics concept, but £5k doesn't really get us into any of that stuff.
I notice that there seems to be an 8p difference between petrol and diesel at the moment, but will that always be the case? All PH suggestions/abuse warmly received.
Just trying to work out what fuel our next motor should run on, given that we're very much in the murky £5k maximum bracket rather than the bright and shiny bracket of modern, zero tax, 28 million mpg motors.
The missis is philosophically inclined towards diesel, and fancies a BMW 320d Touring. I'd be quite happy with a Touring but am less nailed to the diesel mast, believing that we can get similar fuel consumption from a petrol-engined Touring. Running costs are important, and I know BMW diesels are great for both that and for driving, but I've also read a lot of horror stories about blown turbos, stuck injectors and engine-eating swirl flaps on BMW diesels, any one of which would instantly kill off our bangernomical aspirations.
I think post-08 BMWs suffer less from all these foibles, and I like the Efficient Dynamics concept, but £5k doesn't really get us into any of that stuff.
I notice that there seems to be an 8p difference between petrol and diesel at the moment, but will that always be the case? All PH suggestions/abuse warmly received.
All that jazz said:
What sort of miles do you do and what sort of driving (towny, school run, motorway etc)?
A real mix, the missis does a very short drive to school and back, but outside those times we run around locally and then we do a fair few trips around the country too visiting friends and the daughter who is studying at Edinburgh (we live in Wilts). Altogether we do more than the national annual average (assuming that's still 12k). I am under the impression that the BMW diesels aren't all they are cracked up to be when it comes to non motorway driving (especially the bigger engines). I know one guy with a newish 3 tourer diesel and he's quite disappointed with the mpg. He does a lot of short- medium distance journeys. I think diesel is a no brained if you have to tramp up and down the motorways. But if you do a good mix of driving it's less clear cut.
A Honda dealer told me at the weekend that if I do less than 15k/year I shouldn't be looking at diesels. But I was because their petrols are just too flaccid. ( and even though I don't want another Honda, I found myself back their testing a diesel civic because all other hatches are dull as f
k to look at and sit in by comparison )
A Honda dealer told me at the weekend that if I do less than 15k/year I shouldn't be looking at diesels. But I was because their petrols are just too flaccid. ( and even though I don't want another Honda, I found myself back their testing a diesel civic because all other hatches are dull as f
k to look at and sit in by comparison )Blackpuddin said:
A real mix, the missis does a very short drive to school and back, but outside those times we run around locally and then we do a fair few trips around the country too visiting friends and the daughter who is studying at Edinburgh (we live in Wilts). Altogether we do more than the national annual average (assuming that's still 12k).
At that mileage and journey types you're asking for DPF and EGR trouble which, when you've got to shell out to have them fixed will wipe out any fuel cost savings you may have made over a petrol. Get a petrol, but I've no idea which make or model.I also predict the void between petrol and diesel prices will become even larger as more and more people jump on the diesel bandwagon, falling for the "70 mpg" advertising hype.
Otispunkmeyer said:
I am under the impression that the BMW diesels aren't all they are cracked up to be when it comes to non motorway driving (especially the bigger engines). I know one guy with a newish 3 tourer diesel and he's quite disappointed with the mpg. He does a lot of short- medium distance journeys. I think diesel is a no brained if you have to tramp up and down the motorways. But if you do a good mix of driving it's less clear cut.
A Honda dealer told me at the weekend that if I do less than 15k/year I shouldn't be looking at diesels. But I was because their petrols are just too flaccid. ( and even though I don't want another Honda, I found myself back their testing a diesel civic because all other hatches are dull as fk to look at and sit in by comparison )
This pretty much sums up my feelings on it. The Honda diesel I've tried was excellent, the Accord 2.2, properly pokey and I thought a lot sportier than VW's oilburners. Honda is on our radar but I detest the current shape Civic. Previous Civic holds its value (too) well, possibly a reflection of the fact that I might not be alone in hating the new one. Trouble with mainstream Hondas is they're quite dull. A Honda dealer told me at the weekend that if I do less than 15k/year I shouldn't be looking at diesels. But I was because their petrols are just too flaccid. ( and even though I don't want another Honda, I found myself back their testing a diesel civic because all other hatches are dull as f
k to look at and sit in by comparison )All that jazz said:
At that mileage and journey types you're asking for DPF and EGR trouble which, when you've got to shell out to have them fixed will wipe out any fuel cost savings you may have made over a petrol. Get a petrol, but I've no idea which make or model.
I also predict the void between petrol and diesel prices will become even larger as more and more people jump on the diesel bandwagon, falling for the "70 mpg" advertising hype.
Interesting thoughts there, thanks, I'd forgotten about DPFs, had a spot of DPF bother myself with an Ibiza Ecomotive. Anybody know when they came in on the 320d? I also predict the void between petrol and diesel prices will become even larger as more and more people jump on the diesel bandwagon, falling for the "70 mpg" advertising hype.
I'm also torn between petrol and diesel and I've considered a 3 series.
From what I've seen, I think you'll struggle to get into an E90 for £5k (although there are a few tatty basic ones on AT with circa 150k miles), so you're really looking at an E46, which first came out around 15 years ago, so not the most modern design (although quite timeless). I also found reports of problems with the diesels and it seems economy is low to mid 40's, which is ok but not amazing.
I then started looking at the 318i, which I believe is a 2.0 valvetronic engine. It's quite economical apparently and should be within 10mpg of the diesel. However, it seems the 4-cyl petrols are quite unreliable too, so far from ideal. That leaves the 6-cyls, which are great in nearly every way (avoid 320i); but you're looking at 30mpg; less with lots of town driving.
From what I've seen, I think you'll struggle to get into an E90 for £5k (although there are a few tatty basic ones on AT with circa 150k miles), so you're really looking at an E46, which first came out around 15 years ago, so not the most modern design (although quite timeless). I also found reports of problems with the diesels and it seems economy is low to mid 40's, which is ok but not amazing.
I then started looking at the 318i, which I believe is a 2.0 valvetronic engine. It's quite economical apparently and should be within 10mpg of the diesel. However, it seems the 4-cyl petrols are quite unreliable too, so far from ideal. That leaves the 6-cyls, which are great in nearly every way (avoid 320i); but you're looking at 30mpg; less with lots of town driving.
Heathwood said:
I'm also torn between petrol and diesel and I've considered a 3 series.
From what I've seen, I think you'll struggle to get into an E90 for £5k (although there are a few tatty basic ones on AT with circa 150k miles), so you're really looking at an E46, which first came out around 15 years ago, so not the most modern design (although quite timeless). I also found reports of problems with the diesels and it seems economy is low to mid 40's, which is ok but not amazing.
I then started looking at the 318i, which I believe is a 2.0 valvetronic engine. It's quite economical apparently and should be within 10mpg of the diesel. However, it seems the 4-cyl petrols are quite unreliable too, so far from ideal. That leaves the 6-cyls, which are great in nearly every way (avoid 320i); but you're looking at 30mpg; less with lots of town driving.
Again, absolutely what I've been thinking. Had an E36 318i Touring (petrol) and that was pretty juicy, appreciate the newer ones are better but by how much I don't know. Looking ahead I'm also worrying about the E46 resale values, given that there's a new 3 Series coming out now which would make the E46 two (or possibly three) models behind when it's time to sell again. From what I've seen, I think you'll struggle to get into an E90 for £5k (although there are a few tatty basic ones on AT with circa 150k miles), so you're really looking at an E46, which first came out around 15 years ago, so not the most modern design (although quite timeless). I also found reports of problems with the diesels and it seems economy is low to mid 40's, which is ok but not amazing.
I then started looking at the 318i, which I believe is a 2.0 valvetronic engine. It's quite economical apparently and should be within 10mpg of the diesel. However, it seems the 4-cyl petrols are quite unreliable too, so far from ideal. That leaves the 6-cyls, which are great in nearly every way (avoid 320i); but you're looking at 30mpg; less with lots of town driving.
For this reason I've been wondering about the 5 Series. The E60s have only just been superseded, so it might still be only one model behind when I come to sell. Plus they seem good value relative to the 3 Series, presumably because they're seen as more expensive to run, however I'm thinking there won't be that much difference on running costs between one of them and an E46 with the same engine?
Just as an aside, we initially thought we'd be replacing our Mk4 Golf with a Mk5 but we've been very disappointed by the apparent flimsiness of the cars we've looked at and have now abandoned that option, which is a shame because the Golf is perfect for us both sizewise and conceptually.
All that jazz said:
At that mileage and journey types you're asking for DPF and EGR trouble which, when you've got to shell out to have them fixed will wipe out any fuel cost savings you may have made over a petrol. Get a petrol, but I've no idea which make or model.
I also predict the void between petrol and diesel prices will become even larger as more and more people jump on the diesel bandwagon, falling for the "70 mpg" advertising hype.
Friend of ours says he has managed to do a journey in his 105 Golf Bluemotion and get the car back on his drive still reading 80mpg.I also predict the void between petrol and diesel prices will become even larger as more and more people jump on the diesel bandwagon, falling for the "70 mpg" advertising hype.
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