Wing Mirrors on 'Stilts'

[Mrcarfan832]

I've noticed recently that more and more car manufacturers seem to be insisting that their cars be fitted with wing mirrors on 'stilts', as I like to call them. Why is this so? It makes the wing mirror look far more prominent, breaks up the 'continuity' of the lines of the car and surely it is less aerodynamic. The Peugeot RCZ is a good example of this (considering it's meant to be a sleek car).

So what's the point? Any ideas anyone?

[Defcon5]

Some health and safety requirement I suspect. The mirrors themselves seem very large nowadays too

[cuprabob]

Reduce wind noise?

[Mrcarfan832]

cuprabob said:

Reduce wind noise?

But surely sticking out as far as they do would increase wind noise, cos there's more of it to be hit by the wind?

[carl_w]

Low slung cars and EU-mandated mirror height/view?

[cuprabob]

Mrcarfan832 said:

But surely sticking out as far as they do would increase wind noise, cos there's more of it to be hit by the wind?

I don't think so as the air deflected by the mirror would be at a greater distance from the window so not heard by the driver/passenger

[M5 Russ]

As first seen on the BMW e36 M3 circa 1992 ?

[soad]

Defcon5 said:

Some health and safety requirement I suspect. The mirrors themselves seem very large nowadays too

Yes, larger wing mirrors due to EU legislation (just like daytime running lights).

[marshalla]

In the case of the RCZ it looks, to me, like the door mirrors need to be placed so that they can see past the fat arse on the car. Given the step in the glass line and the curvature at the top of the door, the mount has to be low down, but the mirror needs to be raised and moved outwards. I suspect this is becoming more common either due to aero considerations or (more likely) the triumph of form over function.


Historically, wing mirrors were always on stalks anyway - to bring them high enough to be in the driver's eyeline and far enough out to give a clear view to the rear.



(and I have no idea why that car also has a door mirror - maybe the owner is short-sighted ? )

[carl_w]

marshalla said:

In the case of the RCZ it looks, to me, like the door mirrors need to be placed so that they can see past the fat arse on the car. Given the step in the glass line and the curvature at the top of the door, the mount has to be low down, but the mirror needs to be raised and moved outwards. I suspect this is becoming more common either due to aero considerations or (more likely) the triumph of form over function.


Historically, wing mirrors were always on stalks anyway - to bring them high enough to be in the driver's eyeline and far enough out to give a clear view to the rear.



(and I have no idea why that car also has a door mirror - maybe the owner is short-sighted ? )

You'd think, though, that they could make a mirror that would protrude from that bit at the root of the front window, kind of where the quarter-light would be if there was one.

Of course, "wing mirrors" traditionally means mirrors mounted on the wings of the car. Not sure why they fell out of popularity in favour of door mirrors.

[M5 Russ]

The OP mentions stilts not stalks so I take it we are talking about mirrors with 2 mounting legs ?

[Mrcarfan832]

cuprabob said:

Mrcarfan832 said:

But surely sticking out as far as they do would increase wind noise, cos there's more of it to be hit by the wind?

I don't think so as the air deflected by the mirror would be at a greater distance from the window so not heard by the driver/passenger

If there are any bona fide car designers reading this, please put our minds at rest and justify this logic-defying design!!

[carl_w]

carl_w said:

ou'd think, though, that they could make a mirror that would protrude from that bit at the root of the front window, kind of where the quarter-light would be if there was one. And tucked in close to the body negating the need for stalks.

Of course, "wing mirrors" traditionally means mirrors mounted on the wings of the car. Not sure why they fell out of popularity in favour of door mirrors.

[Eighteeteewhy]

[Mrcarfan832]

marshalla said:

In the case of the RCZ it looks, to me, like the door mirrors need to be placed so that they can see past the fat arse on the car. Given the step in the glass line and the curvature at the top of the door, the mount has to be low down, but the mirror needs to be raised and moved outwards. I suspect this is becoming more common either due to aero considerations or (more likely) the triumph of form over function.


Historically, wing mirrors were always on stalks anyway - to bring them high enough to be in the driver's eyeline and far enough out to give a clear view to the rear.



(and I have no idea why that car also has a door mirror - maybe the owner is short-sighted ? )

I see your point Marshalla, and great pics to illustrate your views. Indeed cars did originally have their mirrors on stalks, and then for the last 30 years or so have been located simply jutting out from the front end of where the window ends, which seems the optimum position, unless the vehicle in question really is a slow-slung, wide-arsed supercar (for example, Ferrari Testarossa).

Of recent years however, among many others, something as mundane as the Citroen C4 seem to have adopted this design. Its flanks seem more than narrow enough, so why does it have them?

[Mrcarfan832]

Mrcarfan832 said:

I see your point Marshalla, and great pics to illustrate your views. Indeed cars did originally have their mirrors on stalks, and then for the last 30 years or so have been located simply jutting out from the front end of where the window ends, which seems the optimum position, unless the vehicle in question really is a slow-slung, wide-arsed supercar (for example, Ferrari Testarossa).

Of recent years however, among many others, something as mundane as the Citroen C4 seem to have adopted this design. Its flanks seem more than narrow enough, so why does it have them?

Sorry, I mean low-slung, not slow-slung..

[disco!!!!]

M5 Russ said:

As first seen on the BMW e36 M3 circa 1992 ?

which were taken from the 8 series circa 1989

[marshalla]

Here's the relevant EC directive : http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?...
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?...

(French version linked because it includes the formulae & diagrams not visible in the english text)

good luck!

[Big Rod]

Wing mirrors are protruberances that mess with airflow and consequently drag co-efficients.

I often figured they were a bug bear on '80s(ish) cars as they had all the aerodynamic qualities of a brick stuck to the side of your car...

I figured that pushing the air to the side and over the things would be beneficial to the overall aerodynamics of any given vehicle and at around the same time the Vx Vectra was launched with door mirrors moulded into the bonnet not just the doors themselves in order to smooth airflow.

Take that one step further and remove the bulk from the airflow/turbulence and I can see why that would be the preferrable design.

[M5 Russ]

disco!!!! said:

which were taken from the 8 series circa 1989

I did not realise that