S-Line, M-Sport, R-design. Form or function?
Discussion
Talking specifically about road use, and on all types of road, how would you say the differences over standard of the afore mentioned 'sports' specifications (lower, stiffer suspension, sports seats and bigger, wider tyres) affect the cars ability to be driven quickly?
They obviously affect the ride quality and comfort, but is this outweighed by the improvement in mechanical grip and handling?
I ask because, when looking at such cars, the cheaper non-sports spec. appeals more both on paper and financially, but better handling and the ability to carry more speed could swing it!
They obviously affect the ride quality and comfort, but is this outweighed by the improvement in mechanical grip and handling?
I ask because, when looking at such cars, the cheaper non-sports spec. appeals more both on paper and financially, but better handling and the ability to carry more speed could swing it!
I had an Audi A4 Avant 2.0 tdi(yes I know) S-line on loan for about 5 weeks.
Full spec interior inc leather heated s-line etched seats.
It looked mean as f
k too tbh.
It only had some 800 miles on the clock.Walloped fuel like it was going out of fashion(new engine)
I found it really comfortable and stuck to the road,felt really well planted if not a bit harsh on any potholes etc you couldn't avoid.
With a bigger engine and the way it handled it would have been brutal on the road but felt like it was wafting.
I was almost dissapointed to get my E91 320d back as the S-LINE did hold the road better but it did lack pace against the 320d(even though mine is mapped up a little bit)It would have still lacked pace against my 320d but not by much.
I do like a feeling of a well planted car.The only bad thing I could find with it was wheel spinning out of junctions(even with t/c on) applying the same input I would into the rwd E91 and not get a single hint of wheel spin.
A4 Avant is second on my list of tourer/estate cars..
Full spec interior inc leather heated s-line etched seats.
It looked mean as f
k too tbh.It only had some 800 miles on the clock.Walloped fuel like it was going out of fashion(new engine)
I found it really comfortable and stuck to the road,felt really well planted if not a bit harsh on any potholes etc you couldn't avoid.
With a bigger engine and the way it handled it would have been brutal on the road but felt like it was wafting.
I was almost dissapointed to get my E91 320d back as the S-LINE did hold the road better but it did lack pace against the 320d(even though mine is mapped up a little bit)It would have still lacked pace against my 320d but not by much.
I do like a feeling of a well planted car.The only bad thing I could find with it was wheel spinning out of junctions(even with t/c on) applying the same input I would into the rwd E91 and not get a single hint of wheel spin.
A4 Avant is second on my list of tourer/estate cars..
- Funny.I said years ago back when I was running around in hot hatches and other less exciting st;You would never see me in a diesel or an estate lol.
They are almost without exception inferior dynamically to the "standard" version.
Larger wheels, lower profile rubber (especially lower profile Run Flat rubber a la BMW)
Poor ride, poor feel.
Greater grip of course but its a lot to sacrifice
Until
You try and sell the one without it.
They look great, so good in fact that the real fast version often looks nearly identical
Its a must have I think.
Larger wheels, lower profile rubber (especially lower profile Run Flat rubber a la BMW)
Poor ride, poor feel.
Greater grip of course but its a lot to sacrifice
Until
You try and sell the one without it.
They look great, so good in fact that the real fast version often looks nearly identical
Its a must have I think.
Diamond blue said:
They are almost without exception inferior dynamically to the "standard" version.
Larger wheels, lower profile rubber (especially lower profile Run Flat rubber a la BMW)
Poor ride, poor feel.
Greater grip of course but its a lot to sacrifice
Is that from experience? Do the non-sports cars offer more feel or is that just generic to all modern cars?Larger wheels, lower profile rubber (especially lower profile Run Flat rubber a la BMW)
Poor ride, poor feel.
Greater grip of course but its a lot to sacrifice
The Audi I had was on about circa £300£-350 a corner elastic band like Pirreli (insert uber expensive name in here) and I do have to say whilst the ride was a little harsh doing some wafting,when you made it work for it's money it was really well planted and did what you wanted it to do.
In the town it was an awful crashy thing.Doing what the suspension and tyres were set up to do it was a dream.
I have a certain test area near me.NSL single carriage way with some broken up esses in them.Any speed you lose backing off can be put back in for the next set of esses.
If I can get a clear way in that(the beauty of it is if you look way ahead you can see if any really slow traffic is entering the esses) Bouncing off the apexes and really pushing (white lines mean nothing in these it'a all about the apex)I can tell if a car is a good one if it takes what I throw at it in there.
Loads of young uns attempt pushing through there but without clear road,forever seeing cars in the fields.If you can't push em then back off because the road will spit you off LOL...
I love doing them in the E91 wafting through without apex bouncing at some 65 mph.Get to apex bounce you can carry a lot more than that through there.
Anyway the Audi passed my bouncing off the apex's test.
In the town it was an awful crashy thing.Doing what the suspension and tyres were set up to do it was a dream.
I have a certain test area near me.NSL single carriage way with some broken up esses in them.Any speed you lose backing off can be put back in for the next set of esses.
If I can get a clear way in that(the beauty of it is if you look way ahead you can see if any really slow traffic is entering the esses) Bouncing off the apexes and really pushing (white lines mean nothing in these it'a all about the apex)I can tell if a car is a good one if it takes what I throw at it in there.
Loads of young uns attempt pushing through there but without clear road,forever seeing cars in the fields.If you can't push em then back off because the road will spit you off LOL...
I love doing them in the E91 wafting through without apex bouncing at some 65 mph.Get to apex bounce you can carry a lot more than that through there.
Anyway the Audi passed my bouncing off the apex's test.
Fox- said:
carmadgaz said:
Was out in a 10-plate A6 2.0TDi Avant S-line the other day and thought it was a cracking car, did 300+miles in one sitting, it was comfy and despite an average of 64mph the car still managed 39mpg
39mpg from a 2 litre diesel. Makes you wonder what the point is.Fox- said:
carmadgaz said:
Was out in a 10-plate A6 2.0TDi Avant S-line the other day and thought it was a cracking car, did 300+miles in one sitting, it was comfy and despite an average of 64mph the car still managed 39mpg
39mpg from a 2 litre diesel. Makes you wonder what the point is.busta said:
Is that from experience? Do the non-sports cars offer more feel or is that just generic to all modern cars?
Pretty generic. the things that improve feel are longer travel and lower rate springs, higher profile and narrower tyres. As you may have noticed those are pretty much the opposite of the M-Sport/S-Line/R-Design thing. If it's an RS4 or an M3 you need the extra tyre width and the stiffer suspension to get the power onto the road, and for that sort of power it's an acceptable compromise. But on a BIK-friendly 2-litre oil burner, it just seems a little bit "Barry Boys" really.I drove a standard avensis for 2 weeks recently. It was a reasonable spec with 16inch wheels. In the bneds at any form of speed, it actually felt dangerous and felt like driving a big trifle.
Switch back to the Mondeo (ST), and i smash my jaw onto the floor and the slightest hint of a pothole, and i must spend half my time looking like a drink driver, weaving around these holes in the road.
All said, the avensis was much easier to drive and required less concentration, unless hooning a bit. Normal driving, give me peasant spec, squishy suspension and tyres all day long.
Just a shame they always look st.
Switch back to the Mondeo (ST), and i smash my jaw onto the floor and the slightest hint of a pothole, and i must spend half my time looking like a drink driver, weaving around these holes in the road.
All said, the avensis was much easier to drive and required less concentration, unless hooning a bit. Normal driving, give me peasant spec, squishy suspension and tyres all day long.
Just a shame they always look s
t.Wafflesmk2 said:
I drove a standard avensis for 2 weeks recently. It was a reasonable spec with 16inch wheels. In the bneds at any form of speed, it actually felt dangerous and felt like driving a big trifle.
Switch back to the Mondeo (ST), and i smash my jaw onto the floor and the slightest hint of a pothole, and i must spend half my time looking like a drink driver, weaving around these holes in the road.
All said, the avensis was much easier to drive and required less concentration, unless hooning a bit. Normal driving, give me peasant spec, squishy suspension and tyres all day long.
Just a shame they always look st.
I do wonder whether having cars with race suspension makes some people drive like prats; perhaps having the stiff suspension makes them think they're Fangio?Switch back to the Mondeo (ST), and i smash my jaw onto the floor and the slightest hint of a pothole, and i must spend half my time looking like a drink driver, weaving around these holes in the road.
All said, the avensis was much easier to drive and required less concentration, unless hooning a bit. Normal driving, give me peasant spec, squishy suspension and tyres all day long.
Just a shame they always look s
t.^^ It's possible. Stiff suspension makes a car feel more busy IME and that makes you feel like you are going faster than you are, so people may be tempted to drive as if they were going fast.
Alternatively, people who buy "sport" spec models of ordinary cars may have a greater tendancy than drivers of the 'SE' model (for example) to feel like they are sporty people and want to drive in what they percieve as a sporty manner (ie. sharp steering inputs, braking etc - ie. jerky movements that make them feel as though they are driving quickly. This appears to be a common misconception among non-car enthusiasts, who do not seem to realise that more often than not, speed comes from smooth, well planned inputs, rather than jerky movements which cause a greater feel of changes in G/ speed, but are more liable to upset the car's balance).
Or, the default PH response, Audi S-Line drivers are front bottoms who are overly concerned with imagine.
Alternatively, people who buy "sport" spec models of ordinary cars may have a greater tendancy than drivers of the 'SE' model (for example) to feel like they are sporty people and want to drive in what they percieve as a sporty manner (ie. sharp steering inputs, braking etc - ie. jerky movements that make them feel as though they are driving quickly. This appears to be a common misconception among non-car enthusiasts, who do not seem to realise that more often than not, speed comes from smooth, well planned inputs, rather than jerky movements which cause a greater feel of changes in G/ speed, but are more liable to upset the car's balance).
Or, the default PH response, Audi S-Line drivers are front bottoms who are overly concerned with imagine.
Fox- said:
carmadgaz said:
Was out in a 10-plate A6 2.0TDi Avant S-line the other day and thought it was a cracking car, did 300+miles in one sitting, it was comfy and despite an average of 64mph the car still managed 39mpg
39mpg from a 2 litre diesel. Makes you wonder what the point is.admittedly, that doesn't involve any town driving, cold starts or flooring it, but on a long trip if i really wasn't in a hurry i could get 40mpg.
though i don't stick at 62
heck, it even gets 35 or so at 70-75. it's just town that kills it. a lot.
Vladimir said:
Its almost all expensive chavving and I can't believe how many manufacturers get away with it. They make huge margins on the extras and IMO it looks naff. And S-Line suspension is hilarious too.
agree for the 2nd part.i'm sorry but in almost all models the Msport/S-line etc looks better than the standard or SE models. it just does.
i'm pretty sure most would agree with that. not talking about the ride quality though...just aesthetics.
Well if some plastic tat and spindly, fussy alloys look better then so be it. An SE on the right alloys looks much cleaner, more classy and far less naff. It does depend slightly on the model though. A 3 series coupe and touring is better as an SE, a saloon suits M Sport slightly better. And many agree with this.
The S-line stuff is just faux RS so looks very poor to anyone with half a car brain.
The S-line stuff is just faux RS so looks very poor to anyone with half a car brain.
Edited by Vladimir on Friday 17th February 07:34
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