Modern cars are too capable for the road?!

[StevieB]

Loved the piece by James May last Sunday on top gear about the Fiat Panda. Actually thought it was the most intelligent article Id seen on there for ages and then of course Clarkson rubbished it. But seriously, do modern cars have too much performance, grip and road holding for the road? If you look at serious performance cars in particular, you have to open them up to outrageous speeds before they really deliver.
This is not always a good idea, as I was reminded last week on a brisk drive down a back road when I came around a bend (within the speed limit) and there was a horserider in the road, causing me an embarrassing moment of heavy breaking and waving apologetically..It is just not safe to deploy even 70 or 80% of a modern performance cars capabilities on the road, because you never know who is around the corner! Having good grip from your tyres is obviously a good thing, but somehow we need a balance. Do we need more lighter, simpler cars that come alive at modest speeds.

[Dave Hedgehog]

you are allowed to brake before a corner

and i think toyota and subaru may possibly be working on something along this line, maybe, if rumours are to be believed

Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Sunday 19th February 11:11

[FreeLitres]

99% of drivers in the UK do not want to be sliding cars around corners, so for most people modern cars are great.

For PHers, there is always TVR!

[furrywoolyhatuk]

This is where track days come into their own! But I agree with your post; in the race for faster, better handling cars, development has out grown what's legally realistic.

[Lordglenmorangie]

StevieB said:

Loved the piece by James May last Sunday on top gear about the Fiat Panda. Actually thought it was the most intelligent article Id seen on there for ages and then of course Clarkson rubbished it. But seriously, do modern cars have too much performance, grip and road holding for the road? If you look at serious performance cars in particular, you have to open them up to outrageous speeds before they really deliver.
This is not always a good idea, as I was reminded last week on a brisk drive down a back road when I came around a bend (within the speed limit) and there was a horserider in the road, causing me an embarrassing moment of heavy breaking and waving apologetically..It is just not safe to deploy even 70 or 80% of a modern performance cars capabilities on the road, because you never know who is around the corner! Having good grip from your tyres is obviously a good thing, but somehow we need a balance. Do we need more lighter, simpler cars that come alive at modest speeds.

I love powerful cars and all that goes with them, but I must agree with this post

[spaximus]

May is correct, the problem with modern cars is that it has to a large degree taken away much of the skill out of driving and the fun. Power steering ABS all are great but flater drivers ability. In my first car you got it wrong you paid the price. Fun came from getting the gear changes right, the speed right for each corner, now it is too easy to get wrong but the car sort it out.
I read an article when they brought out the latest MX5 that the designers had not made it have anymore grip so that the driving pleasure was not changed.

[Bonefish Blues]

Certainly the case with a Subaru I ran immediately prior to an MX5. The latter was more fun more often for exactly the reasons stated.

[heebeegeetee]

Yes, I agree that modern cars are too capable and this is why the classic car scene is so huge.

I also think a lot of modern race cars are too capable as well. Rallying for instance, has become downright boring to watch.

[bencollins]

Last week, rented the base version mercedes c class, a 1.6 turbo.
Never went close to using the power on tap. was always driving 10mph over the speed limit here.
Im pretty sure had it been a 0.8 turbo my journey would have taken the same time.
I dont understand the lust for power.
Only improved handling, road view and braking allow higher safer transit speeds.
Larger power means largely nothing, except for overtaking.
Plus larger power means more weight, worse handling, braking (and more fuel stops) which are the true limits of transit speed.

Edited by bencollins on Sunday 19th February 09:26

[TameRacingDriver]

spaximus said:

May is correct, the problem with modern cars is that it has to a large degree taken away much of the skill out of driving and the fun. Power steering ABS all are great but flater drivers ability. In my first car you got it wrong you paid the price. Fun came from getting the gear changes right, the speed right for each corner, now it is too easy to get wrong but the car sort it out.
I read an article when they brought out the latest MX5 that the designers had not made it have anymore grip so that the driving pleasure was not changed.

Thats why I like my Mk1 MX5. No power steering. No traction control. No ESP. No ABS. Decent suspension travel. Skinny little 14" wheels and tyres with visible sidewalls An engine which has JUST enough power to be fun.

I've had and driven some fairly quick cars in my time, but the little Mazda is just SO much fun. It doesn't have enormous amounts of grip, so you can have some fun sliding it about without ever putting yourself in much danger. The chassis is beautifully balanced. The car feels light, alive, and it talks to you about every blemish on the surface of the road. Run over an animal, and the steering communicates which bones you have broken in its body. And RWD for me does demand more skill and practice to get the best out of it, compared with FWD, but is hugely more rewarding as a result.

The Mk1 MX5 despite what some say is actually a fairly quick car (notice before anyone jumps on me, I said *fairly* quick), but in order to make it so, you've actually got to be able to drive the thing. It makes you think about your driving and then being able to keep up with most stuff on the road because you've driven it just right is just so satisfying. Of course, if the speed thing is a problem, you can make them faster, but there's just something quite fun with being able to drive with your footed welded to the floor on a regular basis, driving something slower flat out, regularly, is more fun than only being able to use 50% of a fast cars performance (to me, anyway).

However, I will disagree with your last comment about the modern MX5 having the same grip levels. I'd suggest that this definitely is NOT true. I can imagine that the Mk3 will have significantly higher levels of grip, and other safety features, and would as a result be a faster car in all circumstances, but from what I've read, as with most cars, the old stuff is the most fun.

[D15CO D4VE]

And for this reason alone my most fun car to drive on the road where my clio 172's (had 3 for that reason)

[TameRacingDriver]

Each to their own, but I had a 182 and it still feels too "modern" and capable to me. But if you like em, thats all that matters

[Wills2]

Dave Hedgehog said:

you are allowed to break before a corner

As in stop, get out, have fag and a cup of tea?

Edited by Wills2 on Sunday 19th February 10:27

[jvr]

I've had many fast cars in the past and still own a nippy one now but having a fast capable car where I live at the mo in Hampshire just means I get on the back of the nissan Micra quicker in the crowded roads down here,roll on when I move!
P

[PumpkinSteve]

StevieB said:

Loved the piece by James May last Sunday on top gear about the Fiat Panda. Actually thought it was the most intelligent article Id seen on there for ages and then of course Clarkson rubbished it.

Yeah, I enjoyed that part of the show. I can't stand watching Hammond or Clarkson now, Clarkson especially seems to have become a parody of himself since the show became massive around the world. James May is just a normal guy, that's what I like about him. I loved that programme where he flew to the edge of space Anyway, I agree with what he said about the Panda and other small, low-powered cars.

[TameRacingDriver]

jvr said:

I've had many fast cars in the past and still own a nippy one now but having a fast capable car where I live at the mo in Hampshire just means I get on the back of the nissan Micra quicker in the crowded roads down here,roll on when I move!
P

It IS ALWAYS a Micra though isn't it

[Lucas Ayde]

StevieB said:

This is not always a good idea, as I was reminded last week on a brisk drive down a back road when I came around a bend (within the speed limit) and there was a horserider in the road, causing me an embarrassing moment of heavy breaking and waving apologetically..It is just not safe to deploy even 70 or 80% of a modern performance cars capabilities on the road, because you never know who is around the corner!

In just about any car, ever, it's always been possible to drive too fast for the conditions. It's the responsibility of the driver to exercise some sense as to how they drive.

Since you say you were within the speed limit, how on earth do you think a less capable car would have helped in the incident you describe above as it could have happened in just about any car capable of hitting 60mph?

[anonymous-user]

StevieB said:

This is not always a good idea, as I was reminded last week on a brisk drive down a back road when I came around a bend (within the speed limit) and there was a horserider in the road, causing me an embarrassing moment of heavy breaking and waving apologetically

So in your modern car, in a situation where a driver error has led to excessive speed (speed>vision) your modern car saved your ass, by stopping quickly and without drama in a straightline. (compared to an old car which would have skidded and spun given half a chance)

The limiting factor imo is that modern drivers have not been correctly taught to drive modern cars...........

[anonymous-user]

My wife used to own a Seicento Sporting and I have been lucky enough to have a drive in a Vanquish S! the little Fiat was way more fun

[Ozzie Osmond]

StevieB said:

I was reminded last week on a brisk drive down a back road when I came around a bend (within the speed limit) and there was a horserider in the road, causing me an embarrassing moment of heavy breaking and waving apologetically.

The idea is to drive to the road conditions rather than assume everything's OK just because you're under the speed limit.