Dodgy MOT pass?
Discussion
Hey folks
Recently I sold my lovely little MX5 and bought a crappy Fiesta as I'm now working in London and have no need to be pissing away a load of money on a new car that's only doing a few miles a week.
I bought a nice cheap (haha!) Fiesta with pretty low miles in late January. One of the conditions of the sale was that it was put through an MOT by the small dealer.
I collected the car and noticed a knocking that hadn't been there on the test drive (that I recall) and the dealer said that it was the anti-roll bar bushes that would need replacing and he'd noticed them when he'd replaced the clutch (another condition of the sale). I took this on face value as had read that this was fairly common issue, especially as I thought the car had likely been sitting fairly static for much of it's life (average of only 5k miles per year). Still it was in pretty good nick otherwise and was pretty cheap compared to the others I'd seen.
I dropped it off for a service and have subsequently received a call saying that it's not the bushes but the arms as well and in fact they subsequently found that the suspension spring on the off-side front had failed as well. My concern is that the garage have a "tame" tester who simply passed the car for the sale but I'm not clear on whether the springs and arms would be normally covered in an MOT test? Can anyone confirm?
Also the Ford dealer believe that the tyre that the MOT guy gave an advisory on is actually a fail - I've only done around 30 miles since the MOT test so doubt there'd be enough wear to move between the two.
So clearly I'm faced with an unexpected bill which I may be forced to stomach but I'm wondering what my options are (if any) as no warranty was offered on the car (Wasn't really expecting one on a decade old Fiesta worth under a grand!) but I'm more concerned about whether the MOT certificate was artificially passed to enable the sale - is there any redress or check I can do on this?
Cheers in advance for any help you can offer
Recently I sold my lovely little MX5 and bought a crappy Fiesta as I'm now working in London and have no need to be pissing away a load of money on a new car that's only doing a few miles a week.
I bought a nice cheap (haha!) Fiesta with pretty low miles in late January. One of the conditions of the sale was that it was put through an MOT by the small dealer.
I collected the car and noticed a knocking that hadn't been there on the test drive (that I recall) and the dealer said that it was the anti-roll bar bushes that would need replacing and he'd noticed them when he'd replaced the clutch (another condition of the sale). I took this on face value as had read that this was fairly common issue, especially as I thought the car had likely been sitting fairly static for much of it's life (average of only 5k miles per year). Still it was in pretty good nick otherwise and was pretty cheap compared to the others I'd seen.
I dropped it off for a service and have subsequently received a call saying that it's not the bushes but the arms as well and in fact they subsequently found that the suspension spring on the off-side front had failed as well. My concern is that the garage have a "tame" tester who simply passed the car for the sale but I'm not clear on whether the springs and arms would be normally covered in an MOT test? Can anyone confirm?
Also the Ford dealer believe that the tyre that the MOT guy gave an advisory on is actually a fail - I've only done around 30 miles since the MOT test so doubt there'd be enough wear to move between the two.
So clearly I'm faced with an unexpected bill which I may be forced to stomach but I'm wondering what my options are (if any) as no warranty was offered on the car (Wasn't really expecting one on a decade old Fiesta worth under a grand!) but I'm more concerned about whether the MOT certificate was artificially passed to enable the sale - is there any redress or check I can do on this?
Cheers in advance for any help you can offer
I'm not an MOT tester but have worked closely with them... If the play in the suspension arms is substantial then that is a fail. The broken coil spring can be a fail, a broken spring used to be a straight fail but that has changed to only being a fail if its deemed potentially dangerous. A tyre can be pretty borderline and still be advised.
You may not have a warranty but as its not a private sale you are still covered by SOGA. To be honest trying to get back at the garage could be difficult, might be easier to cut your loses and get the car patched up, none of the faults are majorly expensive to sort.
You may not have a warranty but as its not a private sale you are still covered by SOGA. To be honest trying to get back at the garage could be difficult, might be easier to cut your loses and get the car patched up, none of the faults are majorly expensive to sort.
interloper said:
To be honest trying to get back at the garage could be difficult, might be easier to cut your loses and get the car patched up, none of the faults are majorly expensive to sort.
This was pretty much my feeling I guess, especially as I know that once sorted this should be a great little car with little else to sort (hopefully!!) for some timeI think a lot of garages have one of these MOT testers 'on side' to knock out dodgy MOT's for them. When I had my Saxo VTR (albeit briefly) one of the conditions was that it be MOT'd by the garage when the short MOT was due to expire. They duly gave it a new certificate, except I brought a mechanic along who noted a couple of obvious failings right there and then. Luckily I got my deposit back on it, but there is no doubt that this sort of thing goes on.
I got offered some work from a small garage selling cheap cars. It was amazing how many of them developed faults on the way back from the test station. I walked away as bodging cars isn't my thing.
OP, the tester and salesman will say they have developed since the MOT, you have no chance of any comeback, just get the car fixed and move on. Lesson learnt and all that.......
OP, the tester and salesman will say they have developed since the MOT, you have no chance of any comeback, just get the car fixed and move on. Lesson learnt and all that.......
A MOT looks at specific items and these have to meet a minimum standard, which is quite a low standard. It is not the definitive report on a cars condition that many people believe it to be.
A coil spring can go at any time, with the car just parked up they are still under load, supporting the cars weight. Some tyres can look quite bad due to having raised tread in some areas where the tester isn't allowed to take a depth measurement. The legal limit is 1.6mm across the centre 3/4 of the breadth of tread, if it's on this limit at the time of the test, it can't be failed. If the wheels are out of alignment, 30 miles could be enough to take the tyre below the limit.
The front axle/suspension gets particular attention during the test, a check for movement with the weight on and then jacked up with the weight off. If there is deterioration in the joints and bushes which is not considered excessive, they'll pass.
The test doesn't incorporate a mandatory road test and its purpose is not to diagnose the cause of any noises or why something has failed.
There could also be an element of the Ford garage looking for work to do on the car.
As mentioned above, if you got the car from a dealer, you should be covered under the sales of goods act for the spring.
A coil spring can go at any time, with the car just parked up they are still under load, supporting the cars weight. Some tyres can look quite bad due to having raised tread in some areas where the tester isn't allowed to take a depth measurement. The legal limit is 1.6mm across the centre 3/4 of the breadth of tread, if it's on this limit at the time of the test, it can't be failed. If the wheels are out of alignment, 30 miles could be enough to take the tyre below the limit.
The front axle/suspension gets particular attention during the test, a check for movement with the weight on and then jacked up with the weight off. If there is deterioration in the joints and bushes which is not considered excessive, they'll pass.
The test doesn't incorporate a mandatory road test and its purpose is not to diagnose the cause of any noises or why something has failed.
There could also be an element of the Ford garage looking for work to do on the car.
As mentioned above, if you got the car from a dealer, you should be covered under the sales of goods act for the spring.
Wishbones have to be completly gone with lots of play to fail the test the coil spring has to be fractured & likely to cause a problem ie its loose or the ride height has dropped a lot it will pass if just a small part of it has snapped off. Tyres have have become a 'grey' area for testers (me included) as they have to be very bad to actually fail the test so if the tester is unsure they will give it an advisery rather than fail, this is to cover their own back.
Give Vosa call ASAP as you only have a VERY small window of time to get a complaint in if you think foul play has a occurred this happened to me with a Honda dealer tha put an MOT on a car that REALLY shouldn't have had one. IE you could put you hand through into the rear subframe mount cross member because of rust!
Edited by TinyCappo on Thursday 8th May 13:29
I brought a classic mini in July 2013 with an mot that says no advisories so I thought the car was in safe tip top condition until I took it to the garage recently for its mot to find that it's completely unroadworthy and it could of caught fire and the brakes could of failed which is going to cost £1000 as a starting estimate to fix, clearly the previous private seller must of known this and got a dodgy mot, he could of killed me, what rights do I have and is there any compensation I can claim?
I brought a classic mini in July 2013 with an mot that says no advisories so I thought the car was in safe tip top condition until I took it to the garage recently for its mot to find that it's completely unroadworthy and it could of caught fire and the brakes could of failed which is going to cost £1000 as a starting estimate to fix, clearly the previous private seller must of known this and got a dodgy mot, he could of killed me, what rights do I have and is there any compensation I can claim?
Alternately the car may have been perfectly safe when it was mot'd and the faults have developed over the last year. How are you going to prove otherwise? Are you sure the garage isn't bending you over?
What is actually wrong with it that's going to cost a grand to put right?
If you genuinely think the mot was dodgy and have solid evidence then tell VOSA.
As to rights/compensation all an mot states is the car was roadworthy at the point of the test, nothing else. Hard to see how you're entitled to compensation and who you could claim from.
What is actually wrong with it that's going to cost a grand to put right?
If you genuinely think the mot was dodgy and have solid evidence then tell VOSA.
As to rights/compensation all an mot states is the car was roadworthy at the point of the test, nothing else. Hard to see how you're entitled to compensation and who you could claim from.
Joe23 said:
I brought a classic mini in July 2013 with an mot that says no advisories so I thought the car was in safe tip top condition until I took it to the garage recently for its mot to find that it's completely unroadworthy and it could of caught fire and the brakes could of failed which is going to cost £1000 as a starting estimate to fix, clearly the previous private seller must of known this and got a dodgy mot, he could of killed me, what rights do I have and is there any compensation I can claim?
You've owned a classic Mini for 10 months. The service schedule for those is, as I recall, every 3,000 miles or 6 months, given that the engine and gearbox share the same oil and so it needs to be freshened regularly.So either you've been doing your servicing at home and didn't notice that the car was dangerous (in which case you can't really sue yourself), the garage you have had your servicing done at are muppets for not noticing all the dangerous things they should be checking at a service (you might ask them for a deal in that case), or you just didn't bother to service the car for a year because the car had an MOT, and that's enough. (and let's face it, this is probably what happened).
If you didn't bother to get the car serviced, it's your fault it's now broken.
The only time I purchased from a dealer and it had a dodgey Mot, was for a Motorbike, bike was getting mot'd during the day and I'd pick it up later in the afternoon. Drove it home, first time on a larger bike so took some getting used to.
Went to take the bike out later when it was getting dark, no dash lights. Nothing at all. Tried to find a switch but as it was a Jap import the lights come on automatically. Rode it down to the dealer the next day, the bulbs were covered by the warrenty, labour wasn't and they reckoned it's a two hour job at £60 an hour.
This was when the fun began, the salesman overhearing this comes over and says that's rubbish, asked for my keys and took the bike around the back himself and told them off. However while he rode it from the front of the shop to the back he noticed the steering was stiff, really stiff. The head bearings were seized and the chain was a mess, too loose and too worn. Yet it passed an Mot the day before.
More fun was when I took the bike back for an mot and they failed it on a non standard exhaust, this was the same exhaust that was on the bike which I bought from them, they took note of this then changed it to a pass.
Never went back again, never even thought of that place again until a girl at my work bought a bike from the same place, had an mot done and rode it home. Clutch cable was loose so changing gears was impossible and it eventually snapped, had been routed the wrong way. The place said they'd pick up the bike, van came along and then wanted the £50 fee for collection, which of course was not mentioned on the phone call. Bike got back there and they said that the rear tyre needed replacing as it was below the legal limit. The bike had traveled 5 miles.......
She's never going back there either.
Went to take the bike out later when it was getting dark, no dash lights. Nothing at all. Tried to find a switch but as it was a Jap import the lights come on automatically. Rode it down to the dealer the next day, the bulbs were covered by the warrenty, labour wasn't and they reckoned it's a two hour job at £60 an hour.
This was when the fun began, the salesman overhearing this comes over and says that's rubbish, asked for my keys and took the bike around the back himself and told them off. However while he rode it from the front of the shop to the back he noticed the steering was stiff, really stiff. The head bearings were seized and the chain was a mess, too loose and too worn. Yet it passed an Mot the day before.
More fun was when I took the bike back for an mot and they failed it on a non standard exhaust, this was the same exhaust that was on the bike which I bought from them, they took note of this then changed it to a pass.
Never went back again, never even thought of that place again until a girl at my work bought a bike from the same place, had an mot done and rode it home. Clutch cable was loose so changing gears was impossible and it eventually snapped, had been routed the wrong way. The place said they'd pick up the bike, van came along and then wanted the £50 fee for collection, which of course was not mentioned on the phone call. Bike got back there and they said that the rear tyre needed replacing as it was below the legal limit. The bike had traveled 5 miles.......
She's never going back there either.
Joe23 said:
I brought a classic mini in July 2013 with an mot that says no advisories so I thought the car was in safe tip top condition until I took it to the garage recently for its mot to find that it's completely unroadworthy and it could of caught fire and the brakes could of failed which is going to cost £1000 as a starting estimate to fix, clearly the previous private seller must of known this and got a dodgy mot, he could of killed me, what rights do I have and is there any compensation I can claim?
Reality check - don't take offence (could be a parrot my way soon)First - MOT with no advisories does not mean tip top condition - it's a test carried out on one day in under an hour and results in a certificate that allows you to use it on a road for a year but it's only valid for the day of the test.
If it passed with 1.5mm tread depth on the tyres and you then do 6000 miles in it till the tyres look like slicks then you can't say but I still have 6 mths MOT it can't be illegal when the nice policeman writes out the tickets.
It's your responsibility to maintain (or have someone else maintain your car) and ensure that it's both safe and legal..
I really do worry about the way society is going - it's very broken - the majority of people doen't seem to think they have to be responsible for themselves any more!!!
Joe23 said:
I brought a classic mini in July 2013 with an mot that says no advisories so I thought the car was in safe tip top condition until I took it to the garage recently for its mot to find that it's completely unroadworthy and it could of caught fire and the brakes could of failed which is going to cost £1000 as a starting estimate to fix, clearly the previous private seller must of known this and got a dodgy mot, he could of killed me, what rights do I have and is there any compensation I can claim?
Unless the 23 in your name refers to your IQ, I call troll on this one. Joe23 said:
I brought a classic mini in July 2013 with an mot that says no advisories so I thought the car was in safe tip top condition until I took it to the garage recently for its mot to find that it's completely unroadworthy and it could of caught fire and the brakes could of failed which is going to cost £1000 as a starting estimate to fix, clearly the previous private seller must of known this and got a dodgy mot, he could of killed me, what rights do I have and is there any compensation I can claim?
No, Just no. You've driven 6,000 miles for a year in a Mini and now you're saying because it failed it's MOT and needs money spent on it, it magically had a dodgey MOT? Nah. Sounds like someone is chasing compo..
Also, especially with brakes, you feel the deteriorate? Just whip the wheel off and have a look. Not rocket science?
ETA: Fixed so it's actually understandable. I'm useless in the morning.
I also call troll.
But, as already said, the car could have passed the MOT around the time of purchase & been fine. You have no realistic chance of proving otherwise against the tester.
It's a private sale, caveat emptor applies so, unless you can prove the seller knowingly misled you as to the condition of the car or that the seller is/was a trader masquerading as a private individual, you have no chance.
Your garage may be telling you a load of b
ks as they are looking for work.
In future when buying a car get it examined by someone who knows what they are doing or pay for an RAC/AA type examiner to check it over.
ETA. Find an MoT station that ONLY does MoTs - or check your local council for their station. They have no vested interest in passing or failing as they do no repair work.
Take this car there & see what happens.
But, as already said, the car could have passed the MOT around the time of purchase & been fine. You have no realistic chance of proving otherwise against the tester.
It's a private sale, caveat emptor applies so, unless you can prove the seller knowingly misled you as to the condition of the car or that the seller is/was a trader masquerading as a private individual, you have no chance.
Your garage may be telling you a load of b
ks as they are looking for work.In future when buying a car get it examined by someone who knows what they are doing or pay for an RAC/AA type examiner to check it over.
ETA. Find an MoT station that ONLY does MoTs - or check your local council for their station. They have no vested interest in passing or failing as they do no repair work.
Take this car there & see what happens.
Edited by paintman on Thursday 8th May 08:48
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