Fuel Contamination wrecks a 6 months old 4000 mile engine
Discussion
I'm working on a slight lack of background here - I'll fill-in more as I get it but I'm looking to see if anyone has experience with contaminated fuel - or with dealers blaming (what they claim is) serious engine damage on it?
I've been emailled by a relative of my other half who has a <6 month old <4000 mile Nissan Juke (although I thought he had a Qashqai myself!!) - anyway, it broke down some weeks ago and has been with the dealer ever since.
They initially diagnosed a fault electrical module - waited ages for a replacement - found it didn't help - proceeded to flush the fuel lines - still wouldn't start - and then declared that the engine has been 'damaged by contamined fuel' and told him he'd need to contact the fuel station he used and his insurer (who will sometimes cover this??)
I'm HIGHLY skeptical about this for a number of reasons - the main one being that he'd not put fuel in it for at least 5 days before it broke-down. It had been fine through that time - and it broke down after the EWL came on and the engine started rough running (for about 2 miles before it died completely).
I'm also concerned that they won't discuss what the problem actually is - and they've not responded to a letter asking for a fuel sample to prove contamination. They've basically said they won't do any more work on the car and that it needs a 'whole new engine' (their words - not mine).
The insurers have accepted that a fuel claim is possible but they want to talk to the dealer and need a list of all fuel stations they used. This is tricky as he's a '£20 when it needs it' filler and likely used at least 4-5 different stations in the preceeding weeks. Truth be told he can't actually 100% remember which station he used last (always pays cash so no slips to check either!!)
Bit of a nightmare really - but anyway, anyone with any experience?
p.s. I realise I've not said diesel or petrol - that's because they didn't say that!! If it IS a Juke, they're only petrol atm IIRC (and their engines are subject to a recall over turbo seals too I believe??)
I've been emailled by a relative of my other half who has a <6 month old <4000 mile Nissan Juke (although I thought he had a Qashqai myself!!) - anyway, it broke down some weeks ago and has been with the dealer ever since.
They initially diagnosed a fault electrical module - waited ages for a replacement - found it didn't help - proceeded to flush the fuel lines - still wouldn't start - and then declared that the engine has been 'damaged by contamined fuel' and told him he'd need to contact the fuel station he used and his insurer (who will sometimes cover this??)
I'm HIGHLY skeptical about this for a number of reasons - the main one being that he'd not put fuel in it for at least 5 days before it broke-down. It had been fine through that time - and it broke down after the EWL came on and the engine started rough running (for about 2 miles before it died completely).
I'm also concerned that they won't discuss what the problem actually is - and they've not responded to a letter asking for a fuel sample to prove contamination. They've basically said they won't do any more work on the car and that it needs a 'whole new engine' (their words - not mine).
The insurers have accepted that a fuel claim is possible but they want to talk to the dealer and need a list of all fuel stations they used. This is tricky as he's a '£20 when it needs it' filler and likely used at least 4-5 different stations in the preceeding weeks. Truth be told he can't actually 100% remember which station he used last (always pays cash so no slips to check either!!)
Bit of a nightmare really - but anyway, anyone with any experience?
p.s. I realise I've not said diesel or petrol - that's because they didn't say that!! If it IS a Juke, they're only petrol atm IIRC (and their engines are subject to a recall over turbo seals too I believe??)
Sounds like bulls
t to me and just another example of dealers not knowing how to correctly diagnose a problem. I'll bet that the problem has absolutely nothing to do with the fuel he's been putting in it.
You don't say where the car is now but if they are refusing to do anything with it until you cough up for a new engine then I guess you need to access the car somehow to extract a fuel sample yourself and send it to a specialist to be tested for the "contamination" that they claim. Once you have this then you can tell them to GTFO and get it fixed pronto, or issue a full refund upon return of said vehicle.
t to me and just another example of dealers not knowing how to correctly diagnose a problem. I'll bet that the problem has absolutely nothing to do with the fuel he's been putting in it.You don't say where the car is now but if they are refusing to do anything with it until you cough up for a new engine then I guess you need to access the car somehow to extract a fuel sample yourself and send it to a specialist to be tested for the "contamination" that they claim. Once you have this then you can tell them to GTFO and get it fixed pronto, or issue a full refund upon return of said vehicle.
TheEnd said:
It probably is petrol, because if it was a diesel, they'd be blaming him for filling up with the wrong stuff.
I'm assuming petrol too - mainly as I've never heard of someone suffering damage from contaminated diesel.The big alarm-bell to me is that the dealer won't say what the damage actually is - they won't spend any time stripping the engine because Nissan UK won't authorise the work for some reason.
johnpeat said:
TheEnd said:
It probably is petrol, because if it was a diesel, they'd be blaming him for filling up with the wrong stuff.
I'm assuming petrol too - mainly as I've never heard of someone suffering damage from contaminated diesel.The big alarm-bell to me is that the dealer won't say what the damage actually is - they won't spend any time stripping the engine because Nissan UK won't authorise the work for some reason.
(Huge input there matt, wow)
I suspect the following
A) they don't know what the fault I and are going to throw an engine at it and hope for the best.
B) they have damaged the engine somehow whilst trying to diagnose the fault.
If it was petrol in a diesel engine then more often than not you will only damage the high pressure pump and injectors, but if it hasn't been feulled for 5 days then you would be inclined to rule out that issue no ?
A) they don't know what the fault I and are going to throw an engine at it and hope for the best.
B) they have damaged the engine somehow whilst trying to diagnose the fault.
If it was petrol in a diesel engine then more often than not you will only damage the high pressure pump and injectors, but if it hasn't been feulled for 5 days then you would be inclined to rule out that issue no ?
Something all very odd about this. It is very hard to damage a petrol engine with poor fuel, the fuel goes through about 3 filters before it reaches the engine and it's only purpose when it gets there is to burn. It is very possible to damage the fuel pump with poor fuel, this happened to my Mum's MX5, but that only last ~2 miles from filling up to dying.
If it is a diesel then it is very possible to damage the engine with poor fuel as lubricates the high pressure pump and injectors, not on all engines, but the majority, so if the fuel doesn't have the correct lubricity or is indeed petrol, then the pump and injectors will die at some point. But again, if it had been filled with petrol it would have stopped way before 5 days after filling up.
Somebody is being economical with the truth here, I suspect the dealer.
If it is a diesel then it is very possible to damage the engine with poor fuel as lubricates the high pressure pump and injectors, not on all engines, but the majority, so if the fuel doesn't have the correct lubricity or is indeed petrol, then the pump and injectors will die at some point. But again, if it had been filled with petrol it would have stopped way before 5 days after filling up.
Somebody is being economical with the truth here, I suspect the dealer.
Megaflow said:
Something all very odd about this. It is very hard to damage a petrol engine with poor fuel, the fuel goes through about 3 filters before it reaches the engine and it's only purpose when it gets there is to burn. It is very possible to damage the fuel pump with poor fuel, this happened to my Mum's MX5, but that only last ~2 miles from filling up to dying.
...
Somebody is being economical with the truth here, I suspect the dealer.
Exactly what I was thinking. Even if the petrol was contaminated with expanding builder's foam, it ain't gonna damage the engine because it'll get nowhere near it. This is before you get to the fact that he fills up small quantities at a time, so any small imperfection in the fuel - if it would have mattered at all - will get to the engine very quickly and in reasonable concentration. Not five days after filling up....
Somebody is being economical with the truth here, I suspect the dealer.
I mean, look at it this way - dealer diagnoses fault, waits ages for parts, is wrong. Dealer rediagnoses, spends labour, is wrong. Dealer diagnoses the most preposterously expensive fault they can possibly think of, which also happens not to be covered by warranty... and why does this make it any more likely that they're right?
Even if they're being honest and believe it's contamination, which it doesn't look like they are, there's dickall reason to replace the engine, they just hope that'll solve everything. I mean, the only reason they wouldn't jump at the chance to supply a fuel sample to back up their case is because they know they're almost certainly wrong.
Edited by McSam on Tuesday 13th March 08:25
Hi,
Have just seen this post and read through the commenta and theres some great advise here which I would follow. I know this sounds extreme but if I was you I would get over the the garage ASAP and ensure that you get a sample of the fuel before tey come out which excuses its all gone and none left etc etc etc. Dealers have a duty of care and with diagnosing a fault they need to prove the fault exists if they are not going to just get on with the repair.
I dont trust dealers what so ever and I suspect like everyone else that they are pulling your leg. I used to hate people who used to turn up places and cause hell mary however I do it now as its the only time an issue gets resolved. you have given them a fair chance and its over with.
This is essentially fraud regardless of how they/we look at it. Under no circumstances does any form of fuel contamination cause engine failure. I might have beleived this if it was a high performance nissan GTR being thrased round a track but even then I have been advised from an engineer from rolls royce that contrary to beleif engines these days do have a higher tolerance than before for poor fuel or mixtures of them.
best advise I can give is go down there, get ur keys, lock ur car, get your fuel sample and tell them dont dare touch the car until discussions have taken place between the insurance company and fuel supplier. I would also try a scare tactic and say to them dont touch the car until i am present with a indepent qualified specialist to verify this was contamination and if for any reason it isnt and you have wasted my god dam time and money this will be billed to you for your incompetance. if they say ok fine it can be examined, get it done as more likley than not you will need it done.
Hope this helps
Have just seen this post and read through the commenta and theres some great advise here which I would follow. I know this sounds extreme but if I was you I would get over the the garage ASAP and ensure that you get a sample of the fuel before tey come out which excuses its all gone and none left etc etc etc. Dealers have a duty of care and with diagnosing a fault they need to prove the fault exists if they are not going to just get on with the repair.
I dont trust dealers what so ever and I suspect like everyone else that they are pulling your leg. I used to hate people who used to turn up places and cause hell mary however I do it now as its the only time an issue gets resolved. you have given them a fair chance and its over with.
This is essentially fraud regardless of how they/we look at it. Under no circumstances does any form of fuel contamination cause engine failure. I might have beleived this if it was a high performance nissan GTR being thrased round a track but even then I have been advised from an engineer from rolls royce that contrary to beleif engines these days do have a higher tolerance than before for poor fuel or mixtures of them.
best advise I can give is go down there, get ur keys, lock ur car, get your fuel sample and tell them dont dare touch the car until discussions have taken place between the insurance company and fuel supplier. I would also try a scare tactic and say to them dont touch the car until i am present with a indepent qualified specialist to verify this was contamination and if for any reason it isnt and you have wasted my god dam time and money this will be billed to you for your incompetance. if they say ok fine it can be examined, get it done as more likley than not you will need it done.
Hope this helps
I got another email today - the insurance company has stepped-in and they are trying to arrange a meeting with the dealer, who is apparently not being very helpful about it.
He's compiled a list of the likely petrol stations he used - his insurer says they'll check with them for other cases but as it was several days and at least 50 miles since a fill-up, contaminated fuel seems less likely anyway.
Back when I had a Honda VTi which 'pinked' constantly, several dealers told me it could be any of 20-odd components and that they were not permitted to try changing them all (all at once or one at a time) and that the most likely outcome was Honda UK authorising a new engine (swapping it being quicker than going through 20-odd replacement tests)
Never got that far as someone wrote the car off but I'm guessing there's a bit of that going on here. Someone doesn't want to spend any time on it so they're thinking of the biggest possible issue!?
Only other worry is that even if it does transpire the dealer is being less than honest/diligent - this will probably count as a 'claim' on his insurance which isn't ideal.
Better than needing a whole new engine tho!!
He's compiled a list of the likely petrol stations he used - his insurer says they'll check with them for other cases but as it was several days and at least 50 miles since a fill-up, contaminated fuel seems less likely anyway.
Back when I had a Honda VTi which 'pinked' constantly, several dealers told me it could be any of 20-odd components and that they were not permitted to try changing them all (all at once or one at a time) and that the most likely outcome was Honda UK authorising a new engine (swapping it being quicker than going through 20-odd replacement tests)
Never got that far as someone wrote the car off but I'm guessing there's a bit of that going on here. Someone doesn't want to spend any time on it so they're thinking of the biggest possible issue!?
Only other worry is that even if it does transpire the dealer is being less than honest/diligent - this will probably count as a 'claim' on his insurance which isn't ideal.
Better than needing a whole new engine tho!!
johnpeat said:
I got another email today - the insurance company has stepped-in and they are trying to arrange a meeting with the dealer, who is apparently not being very helpful about it.
He's compiled a list of the likely petrol stations he used - his insurer says they'll check with them for other cases but as it was several days and at least 50 miles since a fill-up, contaminated fuel seems less likely anyway.
Back when I had a Honda VTi which 'pinked' constantly, several dealers told me it could be any of 20-odd components and that they were not permitted to try changing them all (all at once or one at a time) and that the most likely outcome was Honda UK authorising a new engine (swapping it being quicker than going through 20-odd replacement tests)
Never got that far as someone wrote the car off but I'm guessing there's a bit of that going on here. Someone doesn't want to spend any time on it so they're thinking of the biggest possible issue!?
Only other worry is that even if it does transpire the dealer is being less than honest/diligent - this will probably count as a 'claim' on his insurance which isn't ideal.
Better than needing a whole new engine tho!!
Bottom line is that main dealer's don't know sHe's compiled a list of the likely petrol stations he used - his insurer says they'll check with them for other cases but as it was several days and at least 50 miles since a fill-up, contaminated fuel seems less likely anyway.
Back when I had a Honda VTi which 'pinked' constantly, several dealers told me it could be any of 20-odd components and that they were not permitted to try changing them all (all at once or one at a time) and that the most likely outcome was Honda UK authorising a new engine (swapping it being quicker than going through 20-odd replacement tests)
Never got that far as someone wrote the car off but I'm guessing there's a bit of that going on here. Someone doesn't want to spend any time on it so they're thinking of the biggest possible issue!?
Only other worry is that even if it does transpire the dealer is being less than honest/diligent - this will probably count as a 'claim' on his insurance which isn't ideal.
Better than needing a whole new engine tho!!
t. If it doesn't throw up any codes when they hook up the diagnostics then that's it, you're FUBAR'd and that's the point when they tell that it needs a new engine because they simply haven't got a clue what it could be and also don't have a clue where to begin looking.Did you post the issue on the ownersclub forum I linked earlier? It'd be a good idea to do so, firstly because you might get just someone else pipe up that they've also recently been through this, and secondly give them a heads up on what the expect if theirs develops the same fault.
All that jazz said:
Bottom line is that main dealer's don't know st. If it doesn't throw up any codes when they hook up the diagnostics then that's it, you're FUBAR'd and that's the point when they tell that it needs a new engine because they simply haven't got a clue what it could be and also don't have a clue where to begin looking.
You need a second opinion, from someone who can fix engines, not just replace whatever part the computer tells them to. That main dealer has a brand new car in pieces, and they don't have a clue how to put it back together.t. If it doesn't throw up any codes when they hook up the diagnostics then that's it, you're FUBAR'd and that's the point when they tell that it needs a new engine because they simply haven't got a clue what it could be and also don't have a clue where to begin looking.All that jazz said:
Did you post the issue on the ownersclub forum I linked earlier? It'd be a good idea to do so, firstly because you might get just someone else pipe up that they've also recently been through this, and secondly give them a heads up on what the expect if theirs develops the same fault.
I've not done that yet because in the hail of family 'circular' emails, I'm still not sure if it's a QashQai or a Juke - and which exact engine it is!! (I get a different answer every time from someone - the owner isn't internetted y'see).I have his number, I'll call em tomorrow and make sure they're not going to agree to anything which will predjudice their case - tho I'm sure the insurers will quickly bat it back to Nissan if they don't see any proof of contaminated fuel AND the result of it.
I'm not sure every policy would cover something like this tho?? If not, it could prove a right PITA to prove what's really happened??
johnpeat said:
I've not done that yet because in the hail of family 'circular' emails, I'm still not sure if it's a QashQai or a Juke - and which exact engine it is!! (I get a different answer every time from someone - the owner isn't internetted y'see).
I have his number, I'll call em tomorrow and make sure they're not going to agree to anything which will predjudice their case - tho I'm sure the insurers will quickly bat it back to Nissan if they don't see any proof of contaminated fuel AND the result of it.
You're probably putting more work into this than they are - would they welcome your intervention and take your advice?I have his number, I'll call em tomorrow and make sure they're not going to agree to anything which will predjudice their case - tho I'm sure the insurers will quickly bat it back to Nissan if they don't see any proof of contaminated fuel AND the result of it.
johnpeat said:
I'm not sure every policy would cover something like this tho?? If not, it could prove a right PITA to prove what's really happened??
They'll pay out for mis-fueling so contaminated fuel should be covered. What extent they'll go to to satisfy themselves it's contaminated, I don't know. I guess on an out of warranty car they'd be concerned that the owner might be trying to get a mechanical fault repaired, but as the vehicle in question is in warranty then that's not an issue here.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff