Do we want lots of grip and precision?

[havoc]

Just finished the 'New Boxster' article, and CH talks about the complete lack of under- or oversteer at road speeds. Which is a great engineering achievement, but got me thinking - does the PH community WANT a car like that - perfect for apex clipping but no good for hooning???

So, who here are oversteer gods, who likes the MX5/Elan school of low-grip fun, and who are the budding racers who'll enjoy the Boxster?

[ewenm]

I want enough grip but not so much that I can't break traction if I really want to.

The Boxster is probably a good balance but I reckon I'll have more fun in the Caterham with less power and less grip.

[Mr Gear]

There's something to be said for both.

[IAJO]

Its a different kind of fun when you feel like the car is flowing through the corners, sideways is great to watch but probable less easy to do safely/legally on public roads

[kambites]

I'm not one for lairy over-steer on the road, but I still want a car that I can push into appreciable slip-angles at relatively moderate speeds. I think it's unfair to aim that criticism at the Boxster specifically though, almost all modern cars suffer from it.

[Frances The Mute]

Driving a car is about communication for me.

Occasionally, I'll take the information the wrong way - much like not undertsnading the context of a conversation. It's all part of the enjoyment.

[anonymous-user]

Do any of you guys actually seriously drive so that you're losing traction on the road?

[kambites]

bulldong said:

Do any of you guys actually seriously drive so that you're losing traction on the road?

Who said anything about breaking traction?

There are plenty of other reasons to want low grip levels with progressive break-away characteristics. You can adjust a FWD car on the throttle as well as a RWD one; better in some ways.

ETA; Ah OK, the OP did. However, the point still stands. I have almost never intentionally generated over-steer on the public road, but I still have no interest in cars with grip levels that cannot be safely breached.

Edited by kambites on Friday 16th March 16:12

[Chrisw666]

Mr Gear said:

There's something to be said for both.

This. I love low grip/low powered cars where the limits can be found at normal speeds and you can feel the car hanging on.

But I really like the clinical nature of the last gen Boxster that was efficient but also very involving.

[300bhp/ton]

havoc said:

Just finished the 'New Boxster' article, and CH talks about the complete lack of under- or oversteer at road speeds. Which is a great engineering achievement, but got me thinking - does the PH community WANT a car like that - perfect for apex clipping but no good for hooning???

So, who here are oversteer gods, who likes the MX5/Elan school of low-grip fun, and who are the budding racers who'll enjoy the Boxster?

I like all of the options tbh, that's why I like different cars.

My Roadster is fantastic at doing neither over nor understeer but being very grippy precise and balanced.

My TR7 on the other hand is non stop oversteer much of it throttle induced. It's truly a hooligan car.

The Camaro falls somewhere in the middle, understeer if driven too timidly and oversteer when taken by the scruff of the neck and driven a little more aggressively. But quite balanced overall with plenty of grip to see neither unless you trying.

4x4's Disco/Jeep, these are (in AWD mode for the Jeep) more understeer, but they it's the fact you've really got to drive them. Not overly aggressive or sharp steering inputs, but lots of big movements and taking the right line.

[SWoll]

kambites said:

bulldong said:

Do any of you guys actually seriously drive so that you're losing traction on the road?

Who said anything about breaking traction?

There are plenty of other reasons to want low grip levels with progressive break-away characteristics. You can adjust a FWD car on the throttle as well as a RWD one; better in some ways.

Pretty much everyone, I thought that was the OP's point?

I can't agree with you about FWD being more adjustable either TBH having had a few hot hatches in my "yoof" and been pretty much RWD since.

[0000]

Lots of grip but more power.

[Johnboy Mac]

Frances The Mute said:

Driving a car is about communication for me.

Occasionally, I'll take the information the wrong way - much like not undertsnading the context of a conversation. It's all part of the enjoyment.

Well put.

I love the 'seat of the pants' feel.

[pilchardthecat]

I don't care how much grip there is, as long as i can tell exactly where i am relative to the limit.

[kambites]

SWoll said:

Pretty much everyone, I thought that was the OP's point?

Oh maybe it was. I thought he was talking about the ability to adjust the line using the throttle pedal, of which power over-steer is only a very minor part (and the least important part, to my mind).

FWD cars are fundamentally easier to steer with the throttle because they're one-dimensional. With FWD - more power = more under-steer, less power = more over-steer. RWD cars are a bit more complex one because they go over-under-over steer as the throttle opens further. I prefer RWD, but I suspect I could recover far greater slip angles in a FWD car.

Edited by kambites on Friday 16th March 16:30

[Vladimir]

A big part of knowing what the car is doing is what the steering wheel is telling you.
Electrically assisted steering is like talking through two pillows.

Major error.

[kambites]

Vladimir said:

A big part of knowing what the car is doing is what the steering wheel is telling you.
Electrically assisted steering is like talking through two pillows.

Major error.

Any power steering is like talking through two pillows.

Electrically assisted steering is like talking through ten foot thick concrete wall.

[300bhp/ton]

bulldong said:

Do any of you guys actually seriously drive so that you're losing traction on the road?

It depends what you mean. Is sliding a rwd car out of a quiet junction while the car is physically moving at 10-12mph really so bad vs huge amounts of grip and taking a tight corner at 90mph. Should it go wrong, which one is more likely to end in a friendly result.

Also I have no idea what you drive or have driven. But if you've not been behind the wheel of a car with low grip and plenty of power, then it's quite hard to appreciate what breaking traction would be like in such cars. As a rule it's far from dangerous and doesn't usually require too much speed.

[Johnboy Mac]

kambites said:

Any power steering is like talking through two pillows.

Really?

[kambites]

Johnboy Mac said:

kambites said:

Any power steering is like talking through two pillows.

Really?

Well OK, all the systems that I've used. I'm sure it's perfectly possible for either a hydraulic or electric system to give decent feel in theory.