Merc 190E 2.3-16 vs 2.5-16?

[flatline84]

Which one is the one to go for, condition being similar? 2.3 revs a little sweeter and has a bonafide cosworth-top end.
2.5-16 a bit more grunty and lazy, no longer cosworth - but made inhouse!

[s m]

flatline84 said:

Which one is the one to go for, condition being similar? 2.3 revs a little sweeter and has a bonafide cosworth-top end.
2.5-16 a bit more grunty and lazy, no longer cosworth - but made inhouse!

My friend has had both ( still has the 2.5, 2.3 succumbed to tinworm sadly ) and what I would say is that the 2.5 is a fair bit quicker.

For whatever reason ( and I haven't driven either enough to appreciate ) he says he preferred the engine on the 2.3.

Obviously the 2.3 is older but they made more of them

[NadiR]

I've been for a ride in both of them and I found that the 2.3 was more raw and exciting, and the 2.5 was more refined and faster. I'd personally go for the 2.3 for the raw excitement, but wouldn't say no to a tidy 2.5.

[Mr Scruff]

Loved my 2.3. Complete hooligan car - not driven the 2.5 but owners club seemed to say the same as previous posters, 2.3 was slower but somehow more involving to drive.

[s m]

flatline84 said:

Which one is the one to go for, condition being similar?

Are you thinking of getting one Flatline 84? What's your budget?

[flatline84]

S_M: Yeah I im thinking about adding one to my stable.
I already have a W201 190E 2.3 auto in frankly timewarp condition with only 65.000 miles, but a 16v as a weekend car would be perfect wouldnt it?

Im in Norway though so its not as easy to get them in decent nick here. Might have to import one from Germany.
Im not after a showcar/minter, just one without rust and mechanically O.K.
Is the 2.3 slow by modern standards?

[NadiR]

flatline84 said:

Is the 2.3 slow by modern standards?

Nope, not at all, with 180bhp and a 0-60 time of around 8 seconds, it ain't slow, even by modern standards.

[LotusOmega375D]

It's odd how these have never really gone up in value like the M3. Same DTM racing heritage, laudable handling and engine configuration but at a fraction of the current M3 cost. You even get two extra doors and the RHD option thrown in for free as well!

I can understand the autos being unloved: if that's your bag, you may as well get a regular 2.6 auto, but why are the manuals still so cheap?

[s m]

NadiR said:

flatline84 said:

Is the 2.3 slow by modern standards?

Nope, not at all, with 180bhp and a 0-60 time of around 8 seconds, it ain't slow, even by modern standards.

Here's the Autocar test data

Car	0-60	0-100	Top Speed	Standing 1/4	Overall mpg on test
2.3-16	8.0	21.8	145	16.0@88	23.5
2.5-16	7.2	19.2	144	15.1@90	22

[flatline84]

LotusOmega375D said:

It's odd how these have never really gone up in value like the M3. Same DTM racing heritage, laudable handling and engine configuration but at a fraction of the current M3 cost. You even get two extra doors and the RHD option thrown in for free as well!

I can understand the autos being unloved: if that's your bag, you may as well get a regular 2.6 auto, but why are the manuals still so cheap?

An interesting question and one I believe is down to several factors not just one.
From what I have gathered, the 190E is more of an allrounder: Predictable and stable whereas the E30 M3 is more cerebral but ultimately not as proficient in higher speeds.

Second factor would be it being a saloon, as opposed to the M3 being a coupe.
Third factor the steering and gearshift ( albeit its the same gearbox). The M3 is supposed to be more involving....

[LotusOmega375D]

There is a rarer third option: especially if you are considering sourcing a car in Germany. They're pretty well unheard of in the UK and may be above your budget.

The Opel Omega 500 Evo.

3 litre, 230 bhp, 0 - 100 km/h 7.5 seconds, top speed 155mph.

This is one of maybe a couple in the UK:



This is also one (it's not a Lotus Omega as it claims!):

[OllieC]

LotusOmega375D said:

There is a rarer third option: especially if you are considering sourcing a car in Germany. They're pretty well unheard of in the UK and may be above your budget.

The Opel Omega 500 Evo.

3 litre, 230 bhp, 0 - 100 km/h 7.5 seconds, top speed 155mph.

This is also one (it's not a Lotus Omega as it claims!):

I dont want to own a car that has a spaz factor of 100 ?

[s m]

Is the top one Dave's car?

Goes well at Combe

[E30M3SE]

LotusOmega375D said:

It's odd how these have never really gone up in value like the M3. Same DTM racing heritage, laudable handling and engine configuration but at a fraction of the current M3 cost. You even get two extra doors and the RHD option thrown in for free as well!

I can understand the autos being unloved: if that's your bag, you may as well get a regular 2.6 auto, but why are the manuals still so cheap?

They're worth considerably more in mainland Europe than they are here.




Underrated cars imo.

[flatline84]

True, you wont find one below 10.000 pounds in europe in decent nick.

[LotusOmega375D]

OllieC said:

LotusOmega375D said:

There is a rarer third option: especially if you are considering sourcing a car in Germany. They're pretty well unheard of in the UK and may be above your budget.

The Opel Omega 500 Evo.

3 litre, 230 bhp, 0 - 100 km/h 7.5 seconds, top speed 155mph.

This is also one (it's not a Lotus Omega as it claims!):

I dont want to own a car that has a spaz factor of 100 ?

Haha, good spot. I think the person who made that poster must have been a bit of a spaz for publishing a photo of the wrong type of car! Maybe it's a candidate for the misbadged cars thread?

[flatline84]

While I respect the Opel, it does not appeal to me the way 80s merc and BMW`s do.
Opels of old had a quite frankly shocking build quality, and part of the appeal is the vault-like build quality of the 80s.
It doesnt look that good either.

[SignalGruen]

Funnily enough, I've been looking at getting one of these lately too. Watched a lot of DTM in the early 90's and always keep an eye out for either an Audi V8 quattro or a Merc 190 (sadly I can't justify the expense of an E30 M3). Do they rot as badly as the E30's - presumably that's the most important thing I need to look for when buying.

[Baryonyx]

LotusOmega375D said:

There is a rarer third option: especially if you are considering sourcing a car in Germany. They're pretty well unheard of in the UK and may be above your budget.

The Opel Omega 500 Evo.

3 litre, 230 bhp, 0 - 100 km/h 7.5 seconds, top speed 155mph.

This is one of maybe a couple in the UK:



This is also one (it's not a Lotus Omega as it claims!):

Holy st, this is the best car I had never heard of! It looks amazing! Much like that Lotus Senator, yum yum.

[flatline84]

SignalGruen said:

Funnily enough, I've been looking at getting one of these lately too. Watched a lot of DTM in the early 90's and always keep an eye out for either an Audi V8 quattro or a Merc 190 (sadly I can't justify the expense of an E30 M3). Do they rot as badly as the E30's - presumably that's the most important thing I need to look for when buying.

You will find that an E30 M3 rots far worse, quite frankly the build quality is vastly superior in the Mercedes. This was not appreciated or noticed by contemporary car reviewers, and the higher value of the E30 M3 has the majority of them far more pampered.

Treatment that would have seen the E30 M3 in a pile of poo have been endured by many 190E`s and they take beating and neglect like few other cars..