Deposit left, buyer then hopeless/absent - my rights?
Discussion
Hi there! Not sure if this is my first post on here, I generally just lurk around. So hope you don't mind me leaping in with a lengthy one!
Anyway, here's the story... back in February I put my Skoda Octavia vRS up for sale. Only a £3k car, so I expected little trouble in selling - the price was spot on, condition good and the first person to come and see it made an offer. I decided to accept as I wanted a quick sale. He came back the next day with a £500 deposit and said he'd pick the car up the next weekend.
The weekend arrives and no sign of the guy. Can't get hold of him but eventually he calls back and says he has a problem with his bank mishandling a transaction. I'm a bit fed up as I needed the car off my drive, the tax would be running out, and I didn't want to spend on insurance. So I SORN the car, and agree to wait a little longer. He turns up a few days with £800 more and assurances it'll be just a couple of more days. I opt to take the money - the Autotrader advert has expired and I didn't fancy spending money on insurance and tax.
Two more weeks pass, so I call him, tell him that enough is enough and the car is going back on sale and whoever pays the full amount first, gets the car. He seems to accept this. I also tell him I'll keep expenses. I readvertise on PH (not bothered with AT any more!)
Today a nice chap from Aberdeen flew down to collect the car, paid the full price asked for, and is very happy. In the period between taking the first deposit and selling I must have received about 15 enquiries, ranging from crazy to serious sounding.
So - my real question is... how much can I sensibly charge as expenses?
I had two weeks of temporary insurance extra, the space taken (can I charge for that?), the three hours of my time the guy wasted on lengthy and dull explanations of banking problems, the test drive and so on, having to SORN then unSORN the car and buy a fresh tax disc, etc etc. Costs are £135 so far, plus my time. Professionally I charge myself at £72 per hour, but I figure £20 per hour is reasonable, so £195?
Is this legally enforceable? What if he argues it?
The upside is that I'm actually up overall - the guy who finally bought the car paid the full price (it was good value, to be honest) whereas the time waster was getting it for £150 less - so there isn't a really big loss for me - just irritation, time and inconvenience. It's also slightly stressful in a way - I'm not a fan of conflict or arguments!
[edit] some folk are suggesting the guy is poor. Everything about him suggests otherwise. If he was, say, a youngish lad who was clearly trying to put every penny together to pay for his dream car then I'd be more sympathetic, but it's a guy in his 50's who talks as if he's minted, is currently driving a Merc 4x4 (albeit oldish) and says he does 40,000 business miles a year which is why he prefers older but lowish mileage cars to buying new. I think he's just hopeless at getting organised.
Anyway, here's the story... back in February I put my Skoda Octavia vRS up for sale. Only a £3k car, so I expected little trouble in selling - the price was spot on, condition good and the first person to come and see it made an offer. I decided to accept as I wanted a quick sale. He came back the next day with a £500 deposit and said he'd pick the car up the next weekend.
The weekend arrives and no sign of the guy. Can't get hold of him but eventually he calls back and says he has a problem with his bank mishandling a transaction. I'm a bit fed up as I needed the car off my drive, the tax would be running out, and I didn't want to spend on insurance. So I SORN the car, and agree to wait a little longer. He turns up a few days with £800 more and assurances it'll be just a couple of more days. I opt to take the money - the Autotrader advert has expired and I didn't fancy spending money on insurance and tax.
Two more weeks pass, so I call him, tell him that enough is enough and the car is going back on sale and whoever pays the full amount first, gets the car. He seems to accept this. I also tell him I'll keep expenses. I readvertise on PH (not bothered with AT any more!)
Today a nice chap from Aberdeen flew down to collect the car, paid the full price asked for, and is very happy. In the period between taking the first deposit and selling I must have received about 15 enquiries, ranging from crazy to serious sounding.
So - my real question is... how much can I sensibly charge as expenses?
I had two weeks of temporary insurance extra, the space taken (can I charge for that?), the three hours of my time the guy wasted on lengthy and dull explanations of banking problems, the test drive and so on, having to SORN then unSORN the car and buy a fresh tax disc, etc etc. Costs are £135 so far, plus my time. Professionally I charge myself at £72 per hour, but I figure £20 per hour is reasonable, so £195?
Is this legally enforceable? What if he argues it?
The upside is that I'm actually up overall - the guy who finally bought the car paid the full price (it was good value, to be honest) whereas the time waster was getting it for £150 less - so there isn't a really big loss for me - just irritation, time and inconvenience. It's also slightly stressful in a way - I'm not a fan of conflict or arguments!
[edit] some folk are suggesting the guy is poor. Everything about him suggests otherwise. If he was, say, a youngish lad who was clearly trying to put every penny together to pay for his dream car then I'd be more sympathetic, but it's a guy in his 50's who talks as if he's minted, is currently driving a Merc 4x4 (albeit oldish) and says he does 40,000 business miles a year which is why he prefers older but lowish mileage cars to buying new. I think he's just hopeless at getting organised.
Edited by clopinettes on Saturday 24th March 21:39
Are you kidding?
Your f
king time?! Its not a job, you're not working its personal stuff you can't charge for that, what a fking ridiculous thing to do.
This is all part of selling a car.
However, a deposit is for such occassions, you could keep that.. what was it, £500? That should more than cover your precious fking time.
Your f
king time?! Its not a job, you're not working its personal stuff you can't charge for that, what a fking ridiculous thing to do.This is all part of selling a car.
However, a deposit is for such occassions, you could keep that.. what was it, £500? That should more than cover your precious f
king time.clopinettes said:
Hi there! Not sure if this is my first post on here, I generally just lurk around. So hope you don't mind me leaping in with a lengthy one!
Anyway, here's the story... back in February I put my Skoda Octavia vRS up for sale. Only a £3k car, so I expected little trouble in selling - the price was spot on, condition good and the first person to come and see it made an offer. I decided to accept as I wanted a quick sale. He came back the next day with a £500 deposit and said he'd pick the car up the next weekend.
The weekend arrives and no sign of the guy. Can't get hold of him but eventually he calls back and says he has a problem with his bank mishandling a transaction. I'm a bit fed up as I needed the car off my drive, the tax would be running out, and I didn't want to spend on insurance. So I SORN the car, and agree to wait a little longer. He turns up a few days with £800 more and assurances it'll be just a couple of more days. I opt to take the money - the Autotrader advert has expired and I didn't fancy spending money on insurance and tax.
Two more weeks pass, so I call him, tell him that enough is enough and the car is going back on sale and whoever pays the full amount first, gets the car. He seems to accept this. I also tell him I'll keep expenses. I readvertise on PH (not bothered with AT any more!)
Today a nice chap from Aberdeen flew down to collect the car, paid the full price asked for, and is very happy. In the period between taking the first deposit and selling I must have received about 15 enquiries, ranging from crazy to serious sounding.
So - my real question is... how much can I sensibly charge as expenses?
I had two weeks of temporary insurance extra, the space taken (can I charge for that?), the three hours of my time the guy wasted on lengthy and dull explanations of banking problems, the test drive and so on, having to SORN then unSORN the car and buy a fresh tax disc, etc etc. Costs are £135 so far, plus my time. Professionally I charge myself at £72 per hour, but I figure £20 per hour is reasonable, so £195?
Is this legally enforceable? What if he argues it?
The upside is that I'm actually up overall - the guy who finally bought the car paid the full price (it was good value, to be honest) whereas the time waster was getting it for £150 less - so there isn't a really big loss for me - just irritation, time and inconvenience. It's also slightly stressful in a way - I'm not a fan of conflict or arguments!
Charge him the £135. You've already been paid for your time by selling the car, and for it selling for £150 more than it would have done otherwise.Anyway, here's the story... back in February I put my Skoda Octavia vRS up for sale. Only a £3k car, so I expected little trouble in selling - the price was spot on, condition good and the first person to come and see it made an offer. I decided to accept as I wanted a quick sale. He came back the next day with a £500 deposit and said he'd pick the car up the next weekend.
The weekend arrives and no sign of the guy. Can't get hold of him but eventually he calls back and says he has a problem with his bank mishandling a transaction. I'm a bit fed up as I needed the car off my drive, the tax would be running out, and I didn't want to spend on insurance. So I SORN the car, and agree to wait a little longer. He turns up a few days with £800 more and assurances it'll be just a couple of more days. I opt to take the money - the Autotrader advert has expired and I didn't fancy spending money on insurance and tax.
Two more weeks pass, so I call him, tell him that enough is enough and the car is going back on sale and whoever pays the full amount first, gets the car. He seems to accept this. I also tell him I'll keep expenses. I readvertise on PH (not bothered with AT any more!)
Today a nice chap from Aberdeen flew down to collect the car, paid the full price asked for, and is very happy. In the period between taking the first deposit and selling I must have received about 15 enquiries, ranging from crazy to serious sounding.
So - my real question is... how much can I sensibly charge as expenses?
I had two weeks of temporary insurance extra, the space taken (can I charge for that?), the three hours of my time the guy wasted on lengthy and dull explanations of banking problems, the test drive and so on, having to SORN then unSORN the car and buy a fresh tax disc, etc etc. Costs are £135 so far, plus my time. Professionally I charge myself at £72 per hour, but I figure £20 per hour is reasonable, so £195?
Is this legally enforceable? What if he argues it?
The upside is that I'm actually up overall - the guy who finally bought the car paid the full price (it was good value, to be honest) whereas the time waster was getting it for £150 less - so there isn't a really big loss for me - just irritation, time and inconvenience. It's also slightly stressful in a way - I'm not a fan of conflict or arguments!
The idea of a deposit is a guarantee that he buys it. He leaves it there in the knowledge its not his. As you are probably a decent bloke, I'm expecting you to return everything bar things that left you out of pockt, such as tax and insurance. You try and charge someone for time wasted, then you are charging them without a prior agreement to how much you should get paid for the service-you can't do that.
You can keep up to the amount of the deposit, but it sounds like this guy's money ran out. Do you really want to take extra money for timewasting from a guy without much money?
Take the money to cover your loss and move on. That should be enough to learn him.
You can keep up to the amount of the deposit, but it sounds like this guy's money ran out. Do you really want to take extra money for timewasting from a guy without much money?
Take the money to cover your loss and move on. That should be enough to learn him.
I didn't know there were people like you in the world.
Get your money back for your tax disc, it doesn't cost to sorn a car does it?
A test drive? You give people test drives to see if they like the car so 5 people could have came to see the car before someone bought it. You don't charge them do you?
You're not much out of pocket, haven't actually spent THAT much time so either decide to give the fella his money back minus your tax and temporary insurance or keep it all.
Charging for 'space'
Get your money back for your tax disc, it doesn't cost to sorn a car does it?
A test drive? You give people test drives to see if they like the car so 5 people could have came to see the car before someone bought it. You don't charge them do you?
You're not much out of pocket, haven't actually spent THAT much time so either decide to give the fella his money back minus your tax and temporary insurance or keep it all.
Charging for 'space'
tyranical said:
Are you kidding?
Your fking time?! Its not a job, you're not working its personal stuff you can't charge for that, what a fking ridiculous thing to do.
This is all part of selling a car.
However, a deposit is for such occassions, you could keep that.. what was it, £500? That should more than cover your precious fking time.
What a strangely angry man you are. Your f
king time?! Its not a job, you're not working its personal stuff you can't charge for that, what a fking ridiculous thing to do.This is all part of selling a car.
However, a deposit is for such occassions, you could keep that.. what was it, £500? That should more than cover your precious f
king time.He left a £500 deposit. He did not pick up the car. Keep the £500. If he didn't want to lose it, he should have sorted his finances out before even going to see it.
Interesting one this. I remember when I was training doing my litigation seat. Case went something like this:
Guy agrees to buy car, pays deposit, seller writes receipt. Buyer does checks, car and plate don't match. Buyer turns up at agreed selling place (motorway service station iirc) with 3 brothers, and demands money back. Seller refuses (army guy not intimidated) and explains its on a personalised plate and the 'non-matching' plate on the report is the original number, seems the history company's records haven't caught up. Buyer whelks on the deal. Buyer sues seller for deposit back. Seller loses because the receipt does not say 'non-refundable' and case law states a deposit is refundable unless otherwise agreed.
If you have agreed with the Buyer in your case that you will deduct reasonable expenses and return the balance you may be ok.
What would I do? If the guy is generally strapped on cash, seems ok, and you are up on the deal and have covered your expenses, I would give him his deposit back. If he was a knob I would take the cost of my out of pockets, and a bit for my time as compo for having to put up with dealing with him.
Guy agrees to buy car, pays deposit, seller writes receipt. Buyer does checks, car and plate don't match. Buyer turns up at agreed selling place (motorway service station iirc) with 3 brothers, and demands money back. Seller refuses (army guy not intimidated) and explains its on a personalised plate and the 'non-matching' plate on the report is the original number, seems the history company's records haven't caught up. Buyer whelks on the deal. Buyer sues seller for deposit back. Seller loses because the receipt does not say 'non-refundable' and case law states a deposit is refundable unless otherwise agreed.
If you have agreed with the Buyer in your case that you will deduct reasonable expenses and return the balance you may be ok.
What would I do? If the guy is generally strapped on cash, seems ok, and you are up on the deal and have covered your expenses, I would give him his deposit back. If he was a knob I would take the cost of my out of pockets, and a bit for my time as compo for having to put up with dealing with him.
E38Ross said:
Tough one, a deposit ensures the car is his, but you sold it to someone else. But if you made it clear you wanted the funds by a given time and he agreed and didn't pay id say kept his deposit but give him the other 800 back.
This, deposit is to secure an item until the agreed collection date, he failed to pay and collect on that date so looses the deposit in full.Return the £800 and tell him not to be so useless next time!
I don't think you have a contractual or equitable right to any of it at all.
You admit you more than mitigated your 'losses' by selling for a higher price.
I am not convinced you have a case in a contract dispute for the £500.
If anything, unless the first 'buyer' agreed to Contract termination, you are still bound to deliver him the car upon payment of the agreed price.
Of course, not of this is really relevant over a cheap car. Give him his cash back and chalk it up.
Keeping any of his cash stinks.
You admit you more than mitigated your 'losses' by selling for a higher price.
I am not convinced you have a case in a contract dispute for the £500.
If anything, unless the first 'buyer' agreed to Contract termination, you are still bound to deliver him the car upon payment of the agreed price.
Of course, not of this is really relevant over a cheap car. Give him his cash back and chalk it up.
Keeping any of his cash stinks.
I would of written him a non refundable deposit as a receipt and proof
i hate time wasters with a passion especially the numpties that call have an in depth chat arrange to view and dont bother turning up
.Or the idiots that come along and say is it ok if i jack it up and take the wheels off omg
i hate time wasters with a passion especially the numpties that call have an in depth chat arrange to view and dont bother turning up
.Or the idiots that come along and say is it ok if i jack it up and take the wheels off omg Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff