Have I been too sensible?
Discussion
So this weekend just gone I came within a cats whisker of buying a bright orange, 5 door, 58 plate Focus ST-3, 45k miles. Its a beautiful car IMO and even though its just a hatchback, Orange paint and 5 cylinder warbles makes me want it.
Found one, went to see it, test drove it and got offered a seemingly good offer by the dealer.
£5500 px, + £5000 on finance, 24 months flat rate of 4.99 so £229.16/mo (less £500 deposit so this number would be smaller). Car was great, good condition, right colour, right number of doors, right spec, good price.
However while the heart is saying buy buy buy, the head is sorta saying buy while being overcast with doubt and a horrible, uncomfortable feeling. While I know we can technically afford those terms (after all we've been paying similar for our Civic (though this is finished now) and we've been doing OK financially), something in the back of my mind is telling me not to do it, to save my money and build up a decent wedge of cash before doing anything. That and I don't really like the thought of another 2 years paying money out. We do have savings of course, its just not money thats earmarked for a car and its not going to be.
If I had a spare 1-2k lying around I would be driving it right now. But I dont and while the monthly payments are do-able (the numbers work)I have a feeling it's going to leave us sailing too close to wind especially considering that in the first month or 2 of buying the car these costs need accounting for:
1st payment £229.16
tax @ £250 (though the civic needs tax this week so really we'd only pay the difference 250-170 = £80)
£500 deposit
£200 additional insurance
£200-250 on a new set of front tyres as the ones on it were legal but very close to the wear bars. (he said they wont change them as they are legal but they have 1-2 months life left tops)
add all that up and within the first month or 2 its about £1200 which i'll be honest and say would be difficult to do and would leave us hurting for a while (especially as the Mrs must purchase a laptop to write her thesis)
Whats more while the car is good and its an excellent price for a face lift model, along with the tyres it also had the following that make me weary:
Non-standard exhaust tips. (possibly just tips, maybe back box)
Bad stone chip on the bonnet. Right down the metal and it hadnt been touched in and was starting to show signs of rusting.
A noticable scrape on the wing mirror again right down to the plastic
Baddly painted calipers (painted same orange as the car, but paint clearly wasnt mixed well and probably done with a brush, you could see yellow streaks and splodges where the paint hadnt mixed)
Some cosmetic interior trim bits like gear gaitor cover needed re-attaching.
Suspiciously clean engine bay
Yokohama's on the front, but some noddy no make on the back.
Now those things may or may not be cause for concern, but they did make me think twice. Plus at 45k miles it'll probably need a major service in a year or so (though so does the civic)
It's taken us a day or two of deliberation (because we really do love the car) but we've decided not to go for it. Even though I feel the time to own a car like that is now (with fuel/tax/insurance only going one way in this country) I just cant help but see that theres a decent chance of financial ruination. ( I dont mean in masses of debt, but I mean ending up living pay cheque to pay cheque, which I will admit we've been close to doing in recent months and I dont like it).
We've decided instead to go with living in relative financial comfort with a handy amount of pay cheque left each month so we dont have to constantly worry about money and will be ready for any unexpected costs. Whats more with my other half only having 1 year left on her PhD our net income is only really Guaranteed for the next year, not ideal if you know you are in debt to someone for 2 years who wont care about you not having a job to pay them. If it adds any weight my other halfs father (who is an ex-CEO and now chairman of the board for a large european company) and mother both think its a better idea to not buy the car, while conceding that the deal offered is not bad.
TL;DR ->
Wanted to buy Orange Focus ST, 58 plate, facelift. 45k miles, 10.5k cost, a few make you think twice issues but generally good. Some quite high upfront costs but the maths and monthly payments work out. So two options, buy car, possibly end up worrying about money, sailing too close to the wind for comfort. Or not buy car and have relative financial comfort with left over money each month. One slightly reckless, the other entirely very sensible and boring. Chosen the latter...
Have I made the right choice? have I been too sensible? should I throw caution to the wind and live a little (Im not old btw, 26, but only getting older and I've never had a proper pretol head car) What would PH do?
Found one, went to see it, test drove it and got offered a seemingly good offer by the dealer.
£5500 px, + £5000 on finance, 24 months flat rate of 4.99 so £229.16/mo (less £500 deposit so this number would be smaller). Car was great, good condition, right colour, right number of doors, right spec, good price.
However while the heart is saying buy buy buy, the head is sorta saying buy while being overcast with doubt and a horrible, uncomfortable feeling. While I know we can technically afford those terms (after all we've been paying similar for our Civic (though this is finished now) and we've been doing OK financially), something in the back of my mind is telling me not to do it, to save my money and build up a decent wedge of cash before doing anything. That and I don't really like the thought of another 2 years paying money out. We do have savings of course, its just not money thats earmarked for a car and its not going to be.
If I had a spare 1-2k lying around I would be driving it right now. But I dont and while the monthly payments are do-able (the numbers work)I have a feeling it's going to leave us sailing too close to wind especially considering that in the first month or 2 of buying the car these costs need accounting for:
1st payment £229.16
tax @ £250 (though the civic needs tax this week so really we'd only pay the difference 250-170 = £80)
£500 deposit
£200 additional insurance
£200-250 on a new set of front tyres as the ones on it were legal but very close to the wear bars. (he said they wont change them as they are legal but they have 1-2 months life left tops)
add all that up and within the first month or 2 its about £1200 which i'll be honest and say would be difficult to do and would leave us hurting for a while (especially as the Mrs must purchase a laptop to write her thesis)
Whats more while the car is good and its an excellent price for a face lift model, along with the tyres it also had the following that make me weary:
Non-standard exhaust tips. (possibly just tips, maybe back box)
Bad stone chip on the bonnet. Right down the metal and it hadnt been touched in and was starting to show signs of rusting.
A noticable scrape on the wing mirror again right down to the plastic
Baddly painted calipers (painted same orange as the car, but paint clearly wasnt mixed well and probably done with a brush, you could see yellow streaks and splodges where the paint hadnt mixed)
Some cosmetic interior trim bits like gear gaitor cover needed re-attaching.
Suspiciously clean engine bay
Yokohama's on the front, but some noddy no make on the back.
Now those things may or may not be cause for concern, but they did make me think twice. Plus at 45k miles it'll probably need a major service in a year or so (though so does the civic)
It's taken us a day or two of deliberation (because we really do love the car) but we've decided not to go for it. Even though I feel the time to own a car like that is now (with fuel/tax/insurance only going one way in this country) I just cant help but see that theres a decent chance of financial ruination. ( I dont mean in masses of debt, but I mean ending up living pay cheque to pay cheque, which I will admit we've been close to doing in recent months and I dont like it).
We've decided instead to go with living in relative financial comfort with a handy amount of pay cheque left each month so we dont have to constantly worry about money and will be ready for any unexpected costs. Whats more with my other half only having 1 year left on her PhD our net income is only really Guaranteed for the next year, not ideal if you know you are in debt to someone for 2 years who wont care about you not having a job to pay them. If it adds any weight my other halfs father (who is an ex-CEO and now chairman of the board for a large european company) and mother both think its a better idea to not buy the car, while conceding that the deal offered is not bad.
TL;DR ->
Wanted to buy Orange Focus ST, 58 plate, facelift. 45k miles, 10.5k cost, a few make you think twice issues but generally good. Some quite high upfront costs but the maths and monthly payments work out. So two options, buy car, possibly end up worrying about money, sailing too close to the wind for comfort. Or not buy car and have relative financial comfort with left over money each month. One slightly reckless, the other entirely very sensible and boring. Chosen the latter...
Have I made the right choice? have I been too sensible? should I throw caution to the wind and live a little (Im not old btw, 26, but only getting older and I've never had a proper pretol head car) What would PH do?
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Monday 26th March 11:34
doogz said:
My opinion, is that it's a 4 year old, out of warranty, hatchback. It might be fast, and look good, and have some clever bits and bobs (Did the ST have revoknuckle?) but you could buy and insure something a lot more fun for the sort of money you're talking about spending.
Just my view.
Seconded, there are much better cars about the 11k bracket than an STJust my view.
Sensible isn't necessarily bad.
Personally I think you'd be mad to push your finances for an ST, orange or otherwise
You can get an awful lot of interesting stuff for the £5k you have in your current car, while saving the expected payments and having a very healthy savings account in a couple of years.
Personally I think you'd be mad to push your finances for an ST, orange or otherwise
You can get an awful lot of interesting stuff for the £5k you have in your current car, while saving the expected payments and having a very healthy savings account in a couple of years.From a purely financial point of view-Do you want to have money invested in something that has a potential rust spot, badly painted calipers, possible oil leakages and the likes? Plus you might want new tyres and the service, its going to cost a little bit more than the initial price just to put right..
I'm sure more experienced PHers can offer good advice on what you can get for far less money.
I'm sure more experienced PHers can offer good advice on what you can get for far less money.
Who cares if you've been too sensible or not. IMO you've made the right decision, as if you're having these thoughts now - before you even have the car - they will certainly reappear a few months after the 'honeymoon period' if you had bought it.
Agree with above - buy an older, cheaper ST (or something else as there are plenty 'PH cars' for £5k (and less) budgets)
Agree with above - buy an older, cheaper ST (or something else as there are plenty 'PH cars' for £5k (and less) budgets)
in the situation you describe, I would leave it
- it doesn't sound as though the car is a minter
- it sounds a tad tight financially
keep saving and keep looking, in a week or a month or 2 months you might see the right car at the right money so even her dad says go for it (unlikely I know, but more likely than this deal ever making him smile for you).
- it doesn't sound as though the car is a minter
- it sounds a tad tight financially
keep saving and keep looking, in a week or a month or 2 months you might see the right car at the right money so even her dad says go for it (unlikely I know, but more likely than this deal ever making him smile for you).
The Crack Fox said:
My opinion ? Right car, wrong way to pay, these are pretty robust cars and generally well cared for so why not buy an older one that you can afford without having to borrow anything ? It will be just as much fun as a newer one, without you being tied into a loan on a (heavily) depreciating asset ?
Oh, and orange is cool, go for it !
I agree - why not a 56 plate car with sub 50k miles for under £6k, financed or otherwise? I had one and loved it, get a dreamscience remap (and a fuel card), with a remap if you want to live up to the ASBO tag. Very reliable cars!Oh, and orange is cool, go for it !
Dom
matthias73 said:
From a purely financial point of view-Do you want to have money invested in something that has a potential rust spot, badly painted calipers, possible oil leakages and the likes? Plus you might want new tyres and the service, its going to cost a little bit more than the initial price just to put right..
I'm sure more experienced PHers can offer good advice on what you can get for far less money.
Well yes I have thought about going the other way. Slightly off put by private sale of my current car mind. The ST was an easy sell to the Mrs because she loves it too, Orange paint floats her boat. I know full well I could have an e46 with a creamy I6 in the front for less money or an older Alfa with a magnificent V6... these are easy sells for me, but not her!!! I guess I can wear her down maybe hahaI'm sure more experienced PHers can offer good advice on what you can get for far less money.
But at the end of the day I think it wont hurt to live with the civic for another year. It's unlikely to break any time soon, even if the interior rattles and the shoddy ride drive me spare.
Re the non-facelift ST... yeah I could do that. We wouldn't be happy though because we think the facelift just looks that much better, not to mention improved interior quality (not a squeak on the car I drove). I'd rather not buy it or buy something else than compromise on getting a car we werent completely happy with.
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Monday 26th March 12:05
Anyway it appears we have made the right decision going by the concensus on here. Just keep saying to myself... its just a Ford Focus. Plenty about and they made them up to 2011 so in a years time there will still be cars for sale of decent age. Thanks for the input guys.
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Monday 26th March 12:06
Given the situation that you describe and the finance/state of the purchase, I would agree with you that it's probably sensible to hold fire on the purchase.
One thing I would add though is try and decide for yourself. Being subject to parental advice is all well and good but does limit you, especially when you are set on doing something the parents/guardians disagree with.
I find the retired middle class, maybe in their 50s/60s are mortgage free and cash rich and seem to buy teir cars for cash, so are always wary of financing and their advice sometimes leans away from the reality of the mortgaged/student loans/starting salary situation.
My sister bought a 53 plate Audi TT at 23 on finance, which wasn't agreeable to my dad. £13k paid off over 3 years and she's had the car since - still going strong. Not really cost much in running costs in reality and has been a 'good daily car'.
He was set against it as it was only the 150hp model and he doesn't like Audi.
Just goes to show parents have a lot of prejudices and there advice is not always in keeping with their child's reality.
This broke the mould for my sister and now she is confident to make decisions on her own without seeking parental approval. It's definitely made her more decisive and confident with regard to money matters.
One thing I would add though is try and decide for yourself. Being subject to parental advice is all well and good but does limit you, especially when you are set on doing something the parents/guardians disagree with.
I find the retired middle class, maybe in their 50s/60s are mortgage free and cash rich and seem to buy teir cars for cash, so are always wary of financing and their advice sometimes leans away from the reality of the mortgaged/student loans/starting salary situation.
My sister bought a 53 plate Audi TT at 23 on finance, which wasn't agreeable to my dad. £13k paid off over 3 years and she's had the car since - still going strong. Not really cost much in running costs in reality and has been a 'good daily car'.
He was set against it as it was only the 150hp model and he doesn't like Audi.
Just goes to show parents have a lot of prejudices and there advice is not always in keeping with their child's reality.
This broke the mould for my sister and now she is confident to make decisions on her own without seeking parental approval. It's definitely made her more decisive and confident with regard to money matters.
Decent rubber alone will add a good £500 right out the gate the wing mirror covers are expensive too (£50-70 iirc), plus, unless you're the most pessimistic b
d on earth I assure you, you've underestimated what that machine will drink.
IMO in this climate you did the right thing, even if it pains you now.
That being said, there's no way they can't improve that deal, argue the toss, point out all these flaws above and haggle like a fiend, you may be surprised how far they'll stretch. I assure you, dealers won't be shifting ST's hand over fist these days.
d on earth I assure you, you've underestimated what that machine will drink.IMO in this climate you did the right thing, even if it pains you now.
That being said, there's no way they can't improve that deal, argue the toss, point out all these flaws above and haggle like a fiend, you may be surprised how far they'll stretch. I assure you, dealers won't be shifting ST's hand over fist these days.
Buyers market, they made thousands, wait for the right one, get your finance all sorted and in the bank and make some cheeky bids, at the end of the day its an old version of a bright Orange hatchback with a thirsty 5 cylinder petrol engine, the dealer will be telling you how wonderful it is but you try trading one in at the moment, some wont even bid on it, those that will would tell you that that are "Hard to Shift", there will be a mint, one owner one with matching tyres at a reasonable price that the owner has been offered peanuts for, you need to find this owner and give him a few quid more than the derisory trade in, probably on here somewhere.
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