Eurotrip/ Nurburgring car... Which one?

[ic0n]

I currently own an E36 328i and a Clio 172 Cup.

- The E36 has coilovers, an M3 LSD and M50 inlet manifold.
- The Clio has good suspension, cams fitted and a B&M quickshift.


The two couldn't be more different, the Clio is horrific on motorways but the BMW is a breeze.

The BMW is no where near as good round corners compared to the Clio.

Power wise I think the Clio would have the BMW all day long up to 3 figs, then the BMW would take back the lead.

As you can see I'm undecided on what to take this August, it's a 10 day, 3000 mile trip around Holland, Germany, Alps, Italy, Monaco, South of France and home.

Is it possible to make the Beemer handle like the Clio? The Clio is just so exciting. Yes I can't drift it and the power into the front wheels on the limit is frustrating but it's just so capable and agile! I guess the weight is a big factor.

Oh and the BMW insurance is considerably cheaper

Also 30+ mpg in the Clio, 21mpg over 8 tanks in 328i

[Krikkit]

I'd probably go for the RWD BMW for the drifting/tail out fun on the alps hairpins etc, but you'd be equally sane to take the Clio.

[DanDC5]

21mpg!? Do you drive it everywhere on full chat or something?

[BoRED S2upid]

Is it your first trip to the ring?

Thats a lot of miles id take the comfier car which is probably the BMW.

[g3org3y]

DanDC5 said:

21mpg!? Do you drive it everywhere on full chat or something?

Indeed, seems low. Motorway commute in my old 328i would regularly see 34+mpg.

[hornetrider]

BM.

/thread

[ic0n]

I don't drive slow, but I only go to work 1/2 days a week as I work from home. So the rest is hoons or popping to the shop.


It's my first 'Ring trip yes. Also makes me nervous taking RWD when I'm relatively young and all my previous experience is in FWD.


Maybe I should look into the handling side more on the BMW. Also I plan to do track days on the run up to the trip so that may improve my skill in the BMW.

Still not decided!

[carreauchompeur]

As I saw the title, I thought "E36" because this is something I really want to do in my M3.

Definitely the Beemer. It's a long trip...

[ic0n]

Sell up and get an E36 M3? Idea... Hmmm.

Also other cars going:

106 GTi
172 FF
Golf MK4 GTi
Fiesta ST

So it's not like I'd suffer rattles and FWD alone


Although the E36 on the Autobahn at 150MPH is a nice idea. Couldn't do that in the Clio!

Edited by ic0n on Wednesday 11th April 12:25

[Debaser]

I'd take the BMW. If it's your first time at the Nürburgring you'll most probably end up driving quite a long way from the limit, more like a country road that you don't know.

I don't think the car you're in for your first few laps is that important (my first laps were in a 1.6 Passat), just go and enjoy the place.

[Cemesis]

Ensure whatever you take is up to scratch. Tyres and brakes can give out on the Ring in heavier cars (probably not an issue for the Clio). Also make sure you have breakdown cover just in case something happens 1,000 miles from home.

[RobCrezz]

I think if the E36 is lightened a bit and suspension set up nicely and a decent set of tyres it could hang with the clio in the bends.

[DanDC5]

I personally would take the Clio. Ok it'll be a bit noisier on the motorways but I think it'll be more fun when you get to the roads you're planning to enjoy. And a hot hatch battle will add an extra bit of fun to the trip

[BoRED S2upid]

If its your first Ring trip take the one with the best rear visability to let all the cars that will be overtaking you past as you panic your way around the track.

[Thed2300]

RWD

[Japveesix]

ic0n said:

Sell up and get an E36 M3? Idea... Hmmm.

Also other cars going:

106 GTi
172 FF
Golf MK4 GTi
Fiesta ST

If those are the other cars going I'd go with the clio as it just "fits" more.

Also save you a bit on petrol costs and you seem fairly convinced it's the more enjoyable car to drive (ignoring bits of motorway cruising) and surely the driving is the main point of the trip so may as well enjoy it as best as possible

[nonuts]

If doing 3000 miles you WANT to take which ever is more comfortable!

[TREMAiNE]

For fun factor, it has to be the 172, but the 3er will munch the miles better - It can take the long drives where the 172 will get ripped apart. Plus, I think if I did 3000 miles in my Clio my back would be permanently bent in an arc!

[ic0n]

I think I may need to refresh suspension bushes (and diff ones too as they knock a little) and a better set of coilovers on the BMW.

I could end up spending a fair wad on it though... I'm looking at E36 M3's but my age and insurance won't get on at all. Won't even quote online.

I've just re-insured the BMW and will see how I feel. The MPG is really poor but it may just be the fact you don't notice your speed especially on motorways. Or a bad o2 sensor.

[paulmnz]

I have an E36 M3 and an integra type-r so can perhaps offer a reasonable insight.

the M3 is pretty standard, the integra is semi-stripped, has suspension, engine, cage work etc..

I usually do a two week driving stint in europe each year taking in the alps down to monaco via the 'ring, and one year did a lap of corsica (3,000 miles-ish each trip).

I always take the integra - it's loud, hot and noisey... but it makes up for it in the hills. The M3 is a great car, but in the alps it feels big and heavy compared to the integra. I dont use the motorways much other than a blast down the autobahns.

If you've never been to the ring and want to press on a bit, a FWD car is slightly 'safer' if you miss judge a corner (easy to do if you dont know were youre going). The 'ring is very hard on suspension, I've had dampers fail after doing successive laps on very hot days so you want suspension in good nick.

While a bit of oversteer might be a bit of fun on some of the alpine roads, the crappy gear change on the E36 would kill it for me. The M3 is more suited to the fast flowing roads like the N85, but I prefer the really twisty less used roads were you are constaintly working the gearbox.

roads like this, see how often you need to change gear:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibDjiurODqk

plan your route around your car choice :-)

If your going in summer, take something with Aircon. I can't stress enough how hot the cabin gets when it's 30+ degrees outside and your ragging a car up a pass - it really is unbearable.

I find the alps much more of a brake-killer than race tracks - on the run down to monaco you can take a 200km route through the alps that never uses higher than 3rd gear so you never get a chance to let the brakes cool! again, the BM is likely to struggle in this department. poor brakes will mean your coasting down the passes rather than enjoying them.

Worth considering consumables - on average the integra uses a set of front brake pads and 3/4 of a set of road tyres during the trip - I expect tyres/brakes to be cheaper on your clio than the BM.

I use around 12 tanks of fuel / 600 litres in the integra (average of 22mpg which is pretty good considering it drops to 7mpg when your really caining it) - likely to be significantly worse in the M3.

I do have fond memories of following a french registered clio 172 driven by an older gent along the N85 - he was making indecent progress and it was a joy to watch the clio cocking wheels into corners and sweeping through the high speed corners...

which ever car you take you'll have an amazing time.