BMW MINIs - why no small engines?

[Mr Gear]

Ignoring the fact that it looks like a cartoon copy of the real thing, most people will agree that the BMW-era MINIs are pretty good cars on their own merits.

But here's a question: The entry level engine is a 1.6 petrol. Where is the 1.0 or 1.2 engine you'd expect in a car this size?

OK, so a bigger engine might make it go faster, but it could be more economical and cheaper to fuel/tax/insure/service if it was available with something more befitting its diminutive size.

[KevinA3DSG32]

But a Bini is not a small car (well, only on the inside) so a 1.0 would not be economic or have any sort of reasonable performance.

[Mr Gear]

KevinA3DSG32 said:

But a Bini is not a small car (well, only on the inside) so a 1.0 would not be economic or have any sort of reasonable performance.

Well its smaller and I guess lighter than a Corsa/Focus/Astra/Ceed/etc etc etc.... the list goes on, and these all have smaller engines available than 1.6

[BoRED S2upid]

Too heavy? It would be the slowest thing on earth and BMW probably don't want to be associated with such a thing.

[veevee]

Mr Gear said:

KevinA3DSG32 said:

But a Bini is not a small car (well, only on the inside) so a 1.0 would not be economic or have any sort of reasonable performance.

Well its smaller and I guess lighter than a Corsa/Focus/Astra/Ceed/etc etc etc.... the list goes on, and these all have smaller engines available than 1.6

Wrong. Way bigger than a Corsa and about the same as the rest.

And it weighs ~1500Kg. Which will be why!

[Snowboy]

The new mini is sold as being a nippy little car, just like the old one.

But, the old one was a lot lighter and smaller so could be nippy with a 1l engine.
The new mini needs 1.6l to get ‘nippy’ level acceleration and speed.

[Mr Gear]

Fair enough, it's a LOT heavier than I thought. Kind of a shame really.

EDIT: Turns out VeeVee is talking utter bks.

Edited by Mr Gear on Monday 16th April 16:46

[fatboy69]

Probably because a 1.0 or a 1.2 would be rather gutless in a car such as the Mini. It isn't exactly a small car isit? It's not as though it is a MIni in the true sense of the word so maybe that's why the car doesn't have a smaller engine as an entry level effort.

[kambites]

veevee said:

Wrong. Way bigger than a Corsa and about the same as the rest.

And it weighs ~1500Kg. Which will be why!

Are we talking about the same car here? The MINI is slightly wider but substantially shorter than the Fiesta. It weighs just over a tonne - around 1100kg using the standard German measurement which includes driver, luggage and fuel.

It'd be fine with around 60bhp for pootling around town, which is what the vast majority seem to get used for.

Edited by kambites on Monday 16th April 16:50

[Marquis Rex]

Mr Gear said:

KevinA3DSG32 said:

But a Bini is not a small car (well, only on the inside) so a 1.0 would not be economic or have any sort of reasonable performance.

Well its smaller and I guess lighter than a Corsa/Focus/Astra/Ceed/etc etc etc.... the list goes on, and these all have smaller engines available than 1.6

It's not light it's a heavy car, over 1100 kgs (same as an E21/E30 3 series- and I don't see people wishing there was a BMW 312i)
Smaller engine doesn't always = better fuel economy- there's an optimum. You must look at the vehicle drive cycle with an eye on transients ensuring the vehicle doesn't go into fuel enrichment component protection mode. If you were half as clever as you make out you'd know that.

[Mr Gear]

veevee said:

Mr Gear said:

KevinA3DSG32 said:

But a Bini is not a small car (well, only on the inside) so a 1.0 would not be economic or have any sort of reasonable performance.

Well its smaller and I guess lighter than a Corsa/Focus/Astra/Ceed/etc etc etc.... the list goes on, and these all have smaller engines available than 1.6

Wrong. Way bigger than a Corsa and about the same as the rest.

And it weighs ~1500Kg. Which will be why!

A quick check says you are wrong. The Mini IS much smaller than the other cars I listed and a quick wiki-check threw up these for starters:

Mini - 3,630 mm

Focus - 4,175 mm

Corsa D - 3999 mm

[5lab]

veevee said:

Mr Gear said:

KevinA3DSG32 said:

But a Bini is not a small car (well, only on the inside) so a 1.0 would not be economic or have any sort of reasonable performance.

Well its smaller and I guess lighter than a Corsa/Focus/Astra/Ceed/etc etc etc.... the list goes on, and these all have smaller engines available than 1.6

Wrong. Way bigger than a Corsa and about the same as the rest.

And it weighs ~1500Kg. Which will be why!

the 'older' mini (early 2000s) was 1132kg. corsa is 1069kg

ETA : other people got there first.

I'd imagine the reason is because BMW don't have any small engines. Ford, vauxhall etc all have a range of small cars - often one the size of the mini, one below and a couple above. The economies of scale work out for producing more engine sizes, I guess bmw decided that one engine with different turbos was an easier way to build the car

Edited by 5lab on Monday 16th April 16:49

[Mr Gear]

Marquis Rex said:

It's not light it's a heavy car, over 1100 kgs (same as an E21/E30 3 series- and I don't see people wishing there was a BMW 312i)
Smaller engine doesn't always = better fuel economy- there's an optimum. You must look at the vehicle drive cycle with an eye on transients ensuring the vehicle doesn't go into fuel enrichment component protection mode. If you were half as clever as you make out you'd know that.

So Ford, Vauxhall, Toyota, Nissan, Renault etc etc etc are wrong are they? You'd better give them a call to tell them.

It's a valid point, but not as valid as you would like to think it is.

[mannyg]

veevee said:

Wrong. Way bigger than a Corsa and about the same as the rest.

And it weighs ~1500Kg. Which will be why!

I know you're only joking, but its true kerbweight of 1200kg isn't really that heavy.

On topic - why would anyone want any car with an engine of less than 1.6L (unless it is the next class down perhaps)? I can't really picture someone driving the 1.6 MINI and thinking "I wish this was slower".

[Mr Gear]

doogz said:

You used to get a MINI with a 1.4. But it was horrible.

I didn't know that, and I have not spotted any on Autotrader, but I take your word for it. Was it horrible because it was under-powered or some other reason?

[Mr Gear]

mannyg said:

On topic - why would anyone want any car with an engine of less than 1.6L (unless it is the next class down perhaps)? I can't really picture someone driving the 1.6 MINI and thinking "I wish this was slower".

Insurance for youngsters. Cost of fuel, tax and consumables.... same reason as you get small engines in lots of cars!

[kambites]

Mr Gear said:

doogz said:

You used to get a MINI with a 1.4. But it was horrible.

I didn't know that, and I have not spotted any on Autotrader, but I take your word for it. Was it horrible because it was under-powered or some other reason?

73bhp and 0-60 in about 12 seconds... not exactly going to set the world on fire, but quite fast enough for the vast majority of drivers.

[DaveH23]

kambites said:

veevee said:

Wrong. Way bigger than a Corsa and about the same as the rest.

And it weighs ~1500Kg. Which will be why!

Are we talking about the same car here?

Parkers said:

06> Mini Cooper S 1.6 Coupe is 1165 KG's
06> Corsa 1.0 1025 KG's
06> Corsa 1.6 1194 KG's

[Spanna]

I suppose it would mean they would have to market the Mini at a lower base price as it would be a rival to the Corsas and Clios out there, but BMW have been clever in making it seem like a premium product in comparison to the others, which means they can charge more for the base model.

They also get very good economy from the small TDI engine they use, which costs more than base model. If somone wants a Mini with excellent economy then there is no option of tiny petrol engine, only the more expensive diesel.

That's my 2p anyway.

[Mr Gear]

Spanna said:

I suppose it would mean they would have to market the Mini at a lower base price as it would be a rival to the Corsas and Clios out there, but BMW have been clever in making it seem like a premium product in comparison to the others, which means they can charge more for the base model.

They also get very good economy from the small TDI engine they use, which costs more than base model. If somone wants a Mini with excellent economy then there is no option of tiny petrol engine, only the more expensive diesel.

That's my 2p anyway.

I think that is probably closest to the truth actually. Pure economy is delivered by the diesel, but there is no real bog-standard option available.

Clever...ish.