everyday affordable driving thrills- focus zetec or celica?
Discussion
Hi, this is my first post, been registered for a while.
Been trying to mull this one over in my head for a while now, however thought perhaps a good place to ask would be on here.
In a nutshell, like all of you Im a petrol head, Ive got my first child on the way in October, however recently our household took a drop in income. I currently own a 2003 Astra GSi, Ive owned this for four years, so whilst I took on my running costs four years ago - back then road tax, fuel, insurance, even parts cost much much less. You cannot put the increase down to inflation, and I know in the future owning this car could prove to be difficult financially , ie the turbo wont last forever, plus my future child is unlikley to appreciate the ride from the coilovers (and Im not overly keen on them anymore) Im tired of the lack of steering feel, the slow turn-in and the chasis which isnt exactly inspiring.
Ive come to the conclusion, I need an affordable car that offers maximum driving thrills at little as possible cost. Fun isnt just a straight line.
I would appreciate your thoughts on this!!
It must be able to go to the shops, carry a child in reasonable comfort, have a boot big enough for a pushchair, have decent 0-60 or so (not really bothered about top speed) plus remain a really Focus'd enjoyable drivers car.
I have never driven a celica, however I have owned previously a 1.8 zetec mk1 Focus, it is only with hindsight I realise how great a car it was. Great steering feel, powerful brakes, precise gear change , light but feelfull pedals, reliable, revable engine etc....
How would a Celica VVTI compare ?
Im not really looking at the VVTLI version as I dont want to incur the additional insurance,tax,lower combined mpg etc costs
Please Discuss
Been trying to mull this one over in my head for a while now, however thought perhaps a good place to ask would be on here.
In a nutshell, like all of you Im a petrol head, Ive got my first child on the way in October, however recently our household took a drop in income. I currently own a 2003 Astra GSi, Ive owned this for four years, so whilst I took on my running costs four years ago - back then road tax, fuel, insurance, even parts cost much much less. You cannot put the increase down to inflation, and I know in the future owning this car could prove to be difficult financially , ie the turbo wont last forever, plus my future child is unlikley to appreciate the ride from the coilovers (and Im not overly keen on them anymore) Im tired of the lack of steering feel, the slow turn-in and the chasis which isnt exactly inspiring.
Ive come to the conclusion, I need an affordable car that offers maximum driving thrills at little as possible cost. Fun isnt just a straight line.
I would appreciate your thoughts on this!!
It must be able to go to the shops, carry a child in reasonable comfort, have a boot big enough for a pushchair, have decent 0-60 or so (not really bothered about top speed) plus remain a really Focus'd enjoyable drivers car.
I have never driven a celica, however I have owned previously a 1.8 zetec mk1 Focus, it is only with hindsight I realise how great a car it was. Great steering feel, powerful brakes, precise gear change , light but feelfull pedals, reliable, revable engine etc....
How would a Celica VVTI compare ?
Im not really looking at the VVTLI version as I dont want to incur the additional insurance,tax,lower combined mpg etc costs
Please Discuss
Focus Mk1 is a cracking car to drive. We were given a slightly ropey 98 1.6LX. I drive it more than my Passat, it's a much nicer steer than a car 9 years it's junior.
Wouldn't bother with a Celica, not only because of the practicalities but because the Focus will drive nicer IMHO.
If you can afford it, plump for the ST170.
The other option is to sell the coil-overs and buy a standard set with the change.
Wouldn't bother with a Celica, not only because of the practicalities but because the Focus will drive nicer IMHO.
If you can afford it, plump for the ST170.
The other option is to sell the coil-overs and buy a standard set with the change.
Edited by VidalBaboon on Thursday 26th April 13:03
I feel I might be ideally placed to answer this one...
We have our first child due in October, and I recently had to change cars.
I originally had an MX5 import, which I actually sold last summer when we were just planning to have a child. Without thinking too much I went straight out and bought a Celica VVTLi 190. The car was great on the drive home and to be fair nothing went wrong with it in the 6 months I owned it. However...
- The rear seats are cramped. Really cramped.
- It's difficult to fit a child seat safely due to their 'bucket' shape, we tried and it took a long time before I was satisfied it was safe to transport my nephews.
- It's not as exciting as it looks. Underneath, it's a Corrolla. It's just in a fancy frock.
- The interior. It's plastic. Lots of plastic. Seats are made for 'larger' people in my opinion, and very uncomfortable on longer journeys.
- The chassis is nice, but it has it's limitations. It's reluctant to understeer but the chassis wasn't my biggest gripe...
- The engine. It's just a 4-pot that screams above 6200rpm. Unfortunately, keeping it on the boil requires severe hoonage.
- I've driven the 140, too. This is a smoother power delivery, but there's less of it. You'll get overtaken by virtually everything, even your basic Fiesta Zetec will be snapping at a 140s heals.
- Positively, the boot is massive.
I sold it when my girlfriend became pregnant earlier this year, because I was fed up with it and she didn't think it was practical enough. Shame.
I then went looking at Focus's (Foci?). I liked the MK1 and know it had an entertaining chassis. I also do about 45 miles a day and with the rising cost of fuel I was spending £70ish a week in the Celica. I therefore opted for the 1.8 TDCi Focus, which I have owned now for 6 weeks.
- I like the car, it's practical, comfortable, easy to park and see out of, does everything you'd want.
- It couldn't host a gadget show. Sparse is not the word. I do miss gadgets.
- It's not that quick. However, it is returning 47mpg. The nature of the engine has actually calmed my driving style down, a lot.
- It's still a 3-door, which I love. I searched for a while to find one in rare 'Sport' trim. Essentially, big alloys and sporty suspension from a Zetec. It also looks like an ST170 from the outside...
- Rear seat space is amazing, I've had a car ful of mates recently and everyone was comfortable (I have half-leather seats, too)
- Boot space is also pretty epic, fits my mums' wheelchair and a load of shopping too (including a rose bush!)
Things I don't like
- It feels a little cheap inside. That said, it's basic and with a baby on the way I want it to be easy to clean. It feels more spacious inside than a MK2 Focus.
- Seating position is kinda high up. I have it on the lowest setting (I'm only 5'11") but still feel a little like I'm driving a van.
- They're common as fook. Holy cow, every road has a Focus on it at any one point in the day. This does have advantages though, if you're anything like me and like to tinker then parts are cheap. I've just bagged an ST170 spoiler in the right colour for £45.
If I were doing fewer miles I'd seriously recommend the MK1 1.8 Zetec petrol.
I picked the Focus over a Golf PD TDi.
Any questions about either car, ask away...
We have our first child due in October, and I recently had to change cars.
I originally had an MX5 import, which I actually sold last summer when we were just planning to have a child. Without thinking too much I went straight out and bought a Celica VVTLi 190. The car was great on the drive home and to be fair nothing went wrong with it in the 6 months I owned it. However...
- The rear seats are cramped. Really cramped.
- It's difficult to fit a child seat safely due to their 'bucket' shape, we tried and it took a long time before I was satisfied it was safe to transport my nephews.
- It's not as exciting as it looks. Underneath, it's a Corrolla. It's just in a fancy frock.
- The interior. It's plastic. Lots of plastic. Seats are made for 'larger' people in my opinion, and very uncomfortable on longer journeys.
- The chassis is nice, but it has it's limitations. It's reluctant to understeer but the chassis wasn't my biggest gripe...
- The engine. It's just a 4-pot that screams above 6200rpm. Unfortunately, keeping it on the boil requires severe hoonage.
- I've driven the 140, too. This is a smoother power delivery, but there's less of it. You'll get overtaken by virtually everything, even your basic Fiesta Zetec will be snapping at a 140s heals.
- Positively, the boot is massive.
I sold it when my girlfriend became pregnant earlier this year, because I was fed up with it and she didn't think it was practical enough. Shame.
I then went looking at Focus's (Foci?). I liked the MK1 and know it had an entertaining chassis. I also do about 45 miles a day and with the rising cost of fuel I was spending £70ish a week in the Celica. I therefore opted for the 1.8 TDCi Focus, which I have owned now for 6 weeks.
- I like the car, it's practical, comfortable, easy to park and see out of, does everything you'd want.
- It couldn't host a gadget show. Sparse is not the word. I do miss gadgets.
- It's not that quick. However, it is returning 47mpg. The nature of the engine has actually calmed my driving style down, a lot.
- It's still a 3-door, which I love. I searched for a while to find one in rare 'Sport' trim. Essentially, big alloys and sporty suspension from a Zetec. It also looks like an ST170 from the outside...
- Rear seat space is amazing, I've had a car ful of mates recently and everyone was comfortable (I have half-leather seats, too)
- Boot space is also pretty epic, fits my mums' wheelchair and a load of shopping too (including a rose bush!)
Things I don't like
- It feels a little cheap inside. That said, it's basic and with a baby on the way I want it to be easy to clean. It feels more spacious inside than a MK2 Focus.
- Seating position is kinda high up. I have it on the lowest setting (I'm only 5'11") but still feel a little like I'm driving a van.
- They're common as fook. Holy cow, every road has a Focus on it at any one point in the day. This does have advantages though, if you're anything like me and like to tinker then parts are cheap. I've just bagged an ST170 spoiler in the right colour for £45.
If I were doing fewer miles I'd seriously recommend the MK1 1.8 Zetec petrol.
I picked the Focus over a Golf PD TDi.
Any questions about either car, ask away...
If by "future child" you mean a baby on the way, then consider how easy it's going to be to get a child seat into the back. Bending down into a 2 door coupe to get the rear seat secured may be more of a challenge than a 4/5 door vehicle. Consider the door opening requirements as well in this with regards to car parks.
I loved my Gen7 Celica T-Sport and was a fool to get rid.
Echoing some points above:
Bad: The seats can sometimes be uncomfortable on long (2hrs+) journeys, it's difficult to see out of the back, particularly with models that have a rear wing, using the full 190hp takes serious hoonage and you'll have to be in a NSL to reach the RPM required in 2nd gear legally. Low roof and enormous doors makes some tricky entry and exits in narrow spaces.
Good: A previous boss ran the 140 as a family car, between that an RX8, so it is possible. If you're really light on the pedals you can get 36mpg out of the 190. The servicing wasn't much more than my current Yaris.
Echoing some points above:
Bad: The seats can sometimes be uncomfortable on long (2hrs+) journeys, it's difficult to see out of the back, particularly with models that have a rear wing, using the full 190hp takes serious hoonage and you'll have to be in a NSL to reach the RPM required in 2nd gear legally. Low roof and enormous doors makes some tricky entry and exits in narrow spaces.
Good: A previous boss ran the 140 as a family car, between that an RX8, so it is possible. If you're really light on the pedals you can get 36mpg out of the 190. The servicing wasn't much more than my current Yaris.
thanks guys, certainly helps to clarify things..
its looking like focus 1 - 0 celica
i always wondered if the celica was a different toyota models chasis but in a frock..
i also never considered the height aspect with regards to fitting/removing child/child seet, I was prepared to live with 3 doors though
so practicality aside do you guys think its fair to say the mk1 focus zetec is a better drivers car than the celica?
C.A.R. what is the steering feel, gear change, turn-in like in the celica compared to the focus?
cheers all
its looking like focus 1 - 0 celica
i always wondered if the celica was a different toyota models chasis but in a frock..
i also never considered the height aspect with regards to fitting/removing child/child seet, I was prepared to live with 3 doors though
so practicality aside do you guys think its fair to say the mk1 focus zetec is a better drivers car than the celica?
C.A.R. what is the steering feel, gear change, turn-in like in the celica compared to the focus?
cheers all
It's a while since I've driven a 1.8, but based on my 1.6 Focus I'd say you could do a lot better for thrills!
Have you costed up something like an Octavia vRS or a hot hatch of some description? You might be pleasantly surprised on running costs. Also, I presume child seats would render anything coupe-ish impractical?
Have you costed up something like an Octavia vRS or a hot hatch of some description? You might be pleasantly surprised on running costs. Also, I presume child seats would render anything coupe-ish impractical?
I'm afraid I have to disagree with the emerging consensus here. I've driven a couple of 1.8/1.6 mk1 Foci and while being very very good to drive compared to their market sector competitors (Astra/Civic/Grande Punto etc), I can't agree that they are superior to a gen 7 Celica.
The Celica outstrips them in every category except practicality imo.
I imagine an st170 would be a different proposition, but a 1.8? No dice.
The Celica outstrips them in every category except practicality imo.
I imagine an st170 would be a different proposition, but a 1.8? No dice.
Celica gearbox isn't great - but neither is the Focus! The Focus is probably worse, one of the biggest letdowns on an otherwise good car. Celica gearbox was frustrating, a common problem is the gearchange between 2nd - 3rd. Not ideal really when mated to the nature of the engine!
Steering in the Focus is better. My tyres are worse, but there is more feedback. I think the Celica probably had more grip, but this was primarily the tyres fitted. I look forward to these tyres on the Focus wearing out to see just how good the chassis on the Focus can be.
Brakes - Celica is god-awful. Twice that car tried to kill me. The pedal is like stepping in mashed potato - not confidence inspiring in a car easily capable of 130+mph. Brakes on the Focus are much better.
I looked at EP3 Civics, to be honest they're expensive for what you get. Yes, they're meant to be very good, but I don't think I could deal with that kind of highly-strung engine again unless it was a high-revving V8 Ferrari. It's tiring to keep an engine like that 'on the boil' constantly. It's marginally quicker than a Celica 190 being a 2.0 too, but with the cost of fuel I'd say it wasn't worth it.
Clio will be way too small, end of story.
My monthly outgoings are going to be dominated by Baby in the coming months, so running costs were extremely important to me. Hence the diesel, cheap Focus.
Steering in the Focus is better. My tyres are worse, but there is more feedback. I think the Celica probably had more grip, but this was primarily the tyres fitted. I look forward to these tyres on the Focus wearing out to see just how good the chassis on the Focus can be.
Brakes - Celica is god-awful. Twice that car tried to kill me. The pedal is like stepping in mashed potato - not confidence inspiring in a car easily capable of 130+mph. Brakes on the Focus are much better.
I looked at EP3 Civics, to be honest they're expensive for what you get. Yes, they're meant to be very good, but I don't think I could deal with that kind of highly-strung engine again unless it was a high-revving V8 Ferrari. It's tiring to keep an engine like that 'on the boil' constantly. It's marginally quicker than a Celica 190 being a 2.0 too, but with the cost of fuel I'd say it wasn't worth it.
Clio will be way too small, end of story.
My monthly outgoings are going to be dominated by Baby in the coming months, so running costs were extremely important to me. Hence the diesel, cheap Focus.
I had similar decision. I plumped straight for the Celica against a Seat Ibiza FR.
Celica is something different, not a bog standard hatchback but really practical.
Great handling chassis, low driving position, slick gearbox, steering feedback, weighs 1150kg.
The boot is really spacious for a coupe. The rear seats split 60/40. I've had my niece in it, the buggy and extra detritus, managed to fit some more bags and all this for a short break despite the rake of the rear window and removed the parcel shelf.
Great mileage: 40+ mpg is doable.
VED is cheap at £210 (£215 next month), the next band up is an extra £50 IIRC.
Group 13 insurance (in old money)
Cheap to maintain. Jap build quality, chain cam engine. I've only had to worry about general maintenance which has new tyres and brakes.
Reasonably quick 0-60 is under 9s, gearing is more for cruising. Since straightline speed isn't too important so I guess, like myself, you won't be too bothered.
Quiet at motorway speed but will notice tyre roar. There's a decent scream when VVT kicks in.
Rides well apart from crap roads.
Celica is something different, not a bog standard hatchback but really practical.
Great handling chassis, low driving position, slick gearbox, steering feedback, weighs 1150kg.
The boot is really spacious for a coupe. The rear seats split 60/40. I've had my niece in it, the buggy and extra detritus, managed to fit some more bags and all this for a short break despite the rake of the rear window and removed the parcel shelf.
Great mileage: 40+ mpg is doable.
VED is cheap at £210 (£215 next month), the next band up is an extra £50 IIRC.
Group 13 insurance (in old money)
Cheap to maintain. Jap build quality, chain cam engine. I've only had to worry about general maintenance which has new tyres and brakes.
Reasonably quick 0-60 is under 9s, gearing is more for cruising. Since straightline speed isn't too important so I guess, like myself, you won't be too bothered.
Quiet at motorway speed but will notice tyre roar. There's a decent scream when VVT kicks in.
Rides well apart from crap roads.
C.A.R. said:
Celica gearbox isn't great - but neither is the Focus! The Focus is probably worse, one of the biggest letdowns on an otherwise good car. Celica gearbox was frustrating, a common problem is the gearchange between 2nd - 3rd. Not ideal really when mated to the nature of the engine!
Brakes - Celica is god-awful. Twice that car tried to kill me. The pedal is like stepping in mashed potato - not confidence inspiring in a car easily capable of 130+mph. Brakes on the Focus are much better.
Gears is common complaint but I've never had problem. I think some people don't know how to shift!Brakes - Celica is god-awful. Twice that car tried to kill me. The pedal is like stepping in mashed potato - not confidence inspiring in a car easily capable of 130+mph. Brakes on the Focus are much better.
Brakes feel weak. Even uprating them makes little difference.
im a sucker for tendonitis in my achilies tendom so the weak brakes in the celica may have broke the camels back, especially with my driving style , for when the child isnt with me
really intresting points though that you guys have put forward, thanks
with regards to the civic type-r im not sure if the ride may be a little too hard for a child sitting in the back , maybe car sick enducing? maybe ctr owners can advise on this...however id like to run something with lower running costs than what I have now, and a ctr would be similar
the clio is too small for shopping/pushchairs, nice cars though
really intresting points though that you guys have put forward, thanks
with regards to the civic type-r im not sure if the ride may be a little too hard for a child sitting in the back , maybe car sick enducing? maybe ctr owners can advise on this...however id like to run something with lower running costs than what I have now, and a ctr would be similar
the clio is too small for shopping/pushchairs, nice cars though
I personally think the Celica would be too impractical as primary transport with the baby on the way - that's what made me sell mine.
The gearchange may be less of a problem on the 140, as you're not trying to hit 8.5krpm before cracking the next cog, the rev limiter is lower. The amount of times I tried accelerating up / down slip roads and missing 3rd was frustratingly high.
You're used to Vauxhalls - one other car I considered over the Focus was the Astra Coupé (old shape). These look quite handsome and I believe they have more sensible rear seats to accommodate baby. Isofix may even be present.
RE. the Civic route, if you do like them then perhaps a 'Sport' model would suit you better as opposed to a full-on Type R? I don't know what the reality is, but the boot looks rather small on them though.
The gearchange may be less of a problem on the 140, as you're not trying to hit 8.5krpm before cracking the next cog, the rev limiter is lower. The amount of times I tried accelerating up / down slip roads and missing 3rd was frustratingly high.
You're used to Vauxhalls - one other car I considered over the Focus was the Astra Coupé (old shape). These look quite handsome and I believe they have more sensible rear seats to accommodate baby. Isofix may even be present.
RE. the Civic route, if you do like them then perhaps a 'Sport' model would suit you better as opposed to a full-on Type R? I don't know what the reality is, but the boot looks rather small on them though.
Whilst I haven't owned a celica I used to do quite a few miles in my old bosses 190. Getting the most out of the vvt engine did mean getting used to thrashing it and making the most of the 6 sp box.
I found the interior actually quite a pleasant place to be for a jap motor and infinitely superior to anything you find in a focus mk1 or 2. I can't say I ever felt it had weak brakes compared to other cars and found the chassis OK for a fwd. I know the boot was a decent size as my boss used to put his bike in it.
In terms of reliability for the 3years he had it (lease car),it was driven hard and fault free.
Personally out of the 2 I would live with the 3 doors and go for the celica over a focus although I haven't driven the lower powered ones. If you are set on a focus chassis, have a look at the mazda 3, alternatively open your mind to a wider selection.
As for kiddy stuff in a coupe, yes it can be more awkward but doable. I manage with putting the little one in and out of a XK!
I found the interior actually quite a pleasant place to be for a jap motor and infinitely superior to anything you find in a focus mk1 or 2. I can't say I ever felt it had weak brakes compared to other cars and found the chassis OK for a fwd. I know the boot was a decent size as my boss used to put his bike in it.
In terms of reliability for the 3years he had it (lease car),it was driven hard and fault free.
Personally out of the 2 I would live with the 3 doors and go for the celica over a focus although I haven't driven the lower powered ones. If you are set on a focus chassis, have a look at the mazda 3, alternatively open your mind to a wider selection.
As for kiddy stuff in a coupe, yes it can be more awkward but doable. I manage with putting the little one in and out of a XK!
Im currently driving a celica vvti 140 to save cash too, and its achieved everything I wanted and more. The 140 is very economical, crazy reliable, and Ive never noticed any problems at all with the 6speed gearbox. The boot is huge. I will keep mine as long as is practical.
With that said I would not really reccomend it for a new baby, the roof is low, the doors are long and there is almost no floor to stand on to do belts and stuff up in the back. My money still wouldnt go on a focus though as they are too common imo
With that said I would not really reccomend it for a new baby, the roof is low, the doors are long and there is almost no floor to stand on to do belts and stuff up in the back. My money still wouldnt go on a focus though as they are too common imo
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