Modern car safety flaws...
Discussion
Ok so for the last few days I have been in two different hire cars. A mondeo diesel estate and today a new astra 4 door hatch.
For a while now a thought has been knocking around in my head. Modern cars are too safe or isolating and the two cars i have at the moment have hammered this home.
The mondy was a bus there is no other way to describe how it felt to drive. It felt big and very heavy like a tank and I suppose to some very safe. The astra is brand new and it feels very much the same very solid and isolating.
I have been thinking about this and the whole aspect of how fast and how many of the new nissan gtr's were being crashed (along with various other cars) and i think it could be down to the cars feeling so incredibly solid and isolating drivers from the world outside.
I have a 2001 audi a4 and it feels like a lithe sportscar compared to either the mondeo or astra and at the same time makes me feel more vulnerable. It's not going to get me to change to a more modern car in fact on the contrary I am even less inclined to buy a modern car.
This being the case is there a need to lighten modern cars up somewhat to stop young kids and idiots etc getting overconfident by making the cars feel more vulnerable?
Discuss.
For a while now a thought has been knocking around in my head. Modern cars are too safe or isolating and the two cars i have at the moment have hammered this home.
The mondy was a bus there is no other way to describe how it felt to drive. It felt big and very heavy like a tank and I suppose to some very safe. The astra is brand new and it feels very much the same very solid and isolating.
I have been thinking about this and the whole aspect of how fast and how many of the new nissan gtr's were being crashed (along with various other cars) and i think it could be down to the cars feeling so incredibly solid and isolating drivers from the world outside.
I have a 2001 audi a4 and it feels like a lithe sportscar compared to either the mondeo or astra and at the same time makes me feel more vulnerable. It's not going to get me to change to a more modern car in fact on the contrary I am even less inclined to buy a modern car.
This being the case is there a need to lighten modern cars up somewhat to stop young kids and idiots etc getting overconfident by making the cars feel more vulnerable?
Discuss.
I suspect the fact that a lot of cars come with blind spot warning system is indicative of this. I would hazard a guess at an inverse correlation between what you're saying (generally being detached from driving) and the standards of driving in the country as well to be honest. People don't need to look after themselves, their cars do that for them.
Ari said:
So you're suggesting that cars like 1960's Ford Anglias are the safest? 
Only the stats don't seem to back that up...
No not at all. What I am suggesting is that modern cars "feel" so safe and solid that people driving them take their safety for granted and feel invincible due to how they insulate and isolate the driver and occupants. Only the stats don't seem to back that up...
What i am suggesting is that maybe manufacturers need to start looking at making cars less isolating and "safe" feeling.
Certainly not suggesting we go back to ford anglia style days cars should be made safe and safer as now but they should also be made so that it doesnt "feel" safe and isolating.
Make sense.
Perd Hapley said:
I would say the biggest flaw with modern car safety features is that they've sacrificed visibility for strength and NCAP stars.
Every modern car I've driven has enormous blind spots caused by hefty pillars.
Every modern car I've driven has enormous blind spots caused by hefty pillars.
I'd have thought with modern materials, it would be possible to make an affordable car strong enough to survive a crash without making the A-pillars eight inches thick, but apparently not. I don't think it can really be denied that roads have got safer overall, though.
Ok, so how far back should they go?
Because I'm pretty sure that what ever level you decide on, someone used to the car before will refer to it as "too refined".
Fact is cars are safer now than they've ever been, both in terms of active and passive safety.
The problem is the drivers, and that's a whole other issue that you're not going to solve by making cars a bit noisier.
Because I'm pretty sure that what ever level you decide on, someone used to the car before will refer to it as "too refined".
Fact is cars are safer now than they've ever been, both in terms of active and passive safety.
The problem is the drivers, and that's a whole other issue that you're not going to solve by making cars a bit noisier.
Ari said:
Ok, so how far back should they go?
Because I'm pretty sure that what ever level you decide on, someone used to the car before will refer to it as "too refined".
Fact is cars are safer now than they've ever been, both in terms of active and passive safety.
The problem is the drivers, and that's a whole other issue that you're not going to solve by making cars a bit noisier.
I dont know. I mean i don't know if its a case of making them noisier per se but maybe make them feel less solid if that were possible. My a4 is ncap 4 but yet feels very light or soft yet fairly refined.Because I'm pretty sure that what ever level you decide on, someone used to the car before will refer to it as "too refined".
Fact is cars are safer now than they've ever been, both in terms of active and passive safety.
The problem is the drivers, and that's a whole other issue that you're not going to solve by making cars a bit noisier.
There is something in this.
It's often said the safest car is one with a spike in the centre of the steering wheel.
It is a natural human trait to adjust their actions until they achieve the level of danger perception they are used to.
Do you drive faster at night on a road with white lines marking the edges, or drive at the same speed you would without the markings and increase the safety margin?
I drive my modern Golf much faster than my elderly 911, and not just because it is faster.
It's often said the safest car is one with a spike in the centre of the steering wheel.
It is a natural human trait to adjust their actions until they achieve the level of danger perception they are used to.
Do you drive faster at night on a road with white lines marking the edges, or drive at the same speed you would without the markings and increase the safety margin?
I drive my modern Golf much faster than my elderly 911, and not just because it is faster.
gary71 said:
There is something in this.
It's often said the safest car is one with a spike in the centre of the steering wheel.
It is a natural human trait to adjust their actions until they achieve the level of danger perception they are used to.
Do you drive faster at night on a road with white lines marking the edges, or drive at the same speed you would without the markings and increase the safety margin?
I drive my modern Golf much faster than my elderly 911, and not just because it is faster.
Yup I would say this is what I am driving at. Making a car safer is great but the way they are going people "feel" safer so take ever more risk and pay ever less attention to their surroundings meaning they are more inclined to have an accident. Surely the idea much like with anything is to make people crash less and the way things are going people will be inclined to crash more if that makes sense.It's often said the safest car is one with a spike in the centre of the steering wheel.
It is a natural human trait to adjust their actions until they achieve the level of danger perception they are used to.
Do you drive faster at night on a road with white lines marking the edges, or drive at the same speed you would without the markings and increase the safety margin?
I drive my modern Golf much faster than my elderly 911, and not just because it is faster.
Sadly you can make a car hugely safe but the human body is only designed to withstand so much.
I'm not sure the problem is the cars... people drove like maniacs back when their cars were vulnerable.
I drive a car which by all modern standards is a deathtrap, but I've never felt exposed or vulnerable while driving it, even when mingling with the lorries on motorways. It feels like the safest place in the world.
I drive a car which by all modern standards is a deathtrap, but I've never felt exposed or vulnerable while driving it, even when mingling with the lorries on motorways. It feels like the safest place in the world.
I think part of the question is "safer for whom". Modern cars are undeniably better for their occupants, but they're almost certainly more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists, bikers, etc. precisely because they do restrict visibility and tend to lull people into a false sense of security.
kambites said:
I think part of the question is "safer for whom". Modern cars are undeniably better for their occupants, but they're almost certainly more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists, bikers, etc. precisely because they do restrict visibility and tend to lull people into a false sense of security.
A lot of automotive design engineers will be thumping fists on desks at that one! Passive pedestrian safety is a BIG deal to them these days... It's one of the main reasons for silly high swage lines, engines buried behind 2' of plastic bodywork etc.Perd Hapley said:
I'm not sure the problem is the cars... people drove like maniacs back when their cars were vulnerable.
I drive a car which by all modern standards is a deathtrap, but I've never felt exposed or vulnerable while driving it, even when mingling with the lorries on motorways. It feels like the safest place in the world.
Exactly. Most people work out risk based on experience. So once they've driven their old car, or their car with a spike in the steering wheel as suggested above, for a few months without incident they'll become "immune" again and carry on as normal.I drive a car which by all modern standards is a deathtrap, but I've never felt exposed or vulnerable while driving it, even when mingling with the lorries on motorways. It feels like the safest place in the world.
I'm afraid most people on the roads aren't that bright and simply don't consider risk. It's why we have to have seatbelt laws, it's never going to happen to them...
HustleRussell said:
A lot of automotive design engineers will be thumping fists on desks at that one! Passive pedestrian safety is a BIG deal to them these days... It's one of the main reasons for silly high swage lines, engines buried behind 2' of plastic bodywork etc.
But again that only deals with having accidents, not preventing them. What about the fact you can barely see out the back of even small cars? Easier not to reverse into a child if you can see where you're going. HustleRussell said:
kambites said:
I think part of the question is "safer for whom". Modern cars are undeniably better for their occupants, but they're almost certainly more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists, bikers, etc. precisely because they do restrict visibility and tend to lull people into a false sense of security.
A lot of automotive design engineers will be thumping fists on desks at that one! Passive pedestrian safety is a BIG deal to them these days... It's one of the main reasons for silly high swage lines, engines buried behind 2' of plastic bodywork etc.ETA: Actually the mirror size is down to legislation, I think?
Perd Hapley said:
I would say the biggest flaw with modern car safety features is that they've sacrificed visibility for strength and NCAP stars.
Every modern car I've driven has enormous blind spots caused by hefty pillars.
I agree with this. Sitting into the current BMW mini felt claustrophobic in comparison to my old mk3 fiesta.Every modern car I've driven has enormous blind spots caused by hefty pillars.
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