BMW M5 - suspect mileage?
Discussion
I really dont know why i let cars stress me out. I honestly should just get a 2 litre diesel Insignia on a 3 year lease and be done with it.
Sold the RS a few months ago, been keeping my ears to the ground for a low milleage E39 M5 (that 1 owner 28k, concours, smells like new kind of one), not sure how or why (perhaps the fact they dont exist) but i'm now stuck wanting an E60. (now in a trap that everything is either too old, with too many miles, or the wrong spec, color, or too new and therefore much money)
Anywho.. went and saw a facelift 57 plate car at a dealer at the weekend, perfect colour, amazing spec with everything on it - leather dash, individual paint, extended leather, indi sound system, ventilated heated m-active front seats seats, heated rear etc etc. (bearing in mind i have wasted years of my life on BMW configurators at work "dreaming" and i cant help but tick all the pointless boxes) So i was kind of excited by this, and it sort of fitted in my budget.
Phoned and spoke to the dealer.. sounded promising, dropped a comment along the lines of, the milleage wasnt listed in the advert as they think its had a speedo change, and it needs to be varified .... not worried too much, thought we could have a tamper dot that needs to be addressed.
Got there, nice chap, nice garage.. had a look around.. proper pebble dashed bonnet, bumper and windshield, however not to be put off, the interior and rest of the car where as described. Brought up the topic of the milleage.. was told its 64k, however after some research they think it should be 10k more than that... i said that worried me, as it would cause me problems when i need to sell it... to be told not to worry, for £200 it could be "changed to whatever". He would however be willing to negotiate on the price due to mileage news.
At which point i was thinking.. im looking at a car which has effectivley been clocked... and your condoning this. The 10k he originally mentioned could have been 100k for all i know.
Had a look at the service book, it had 59k as of October 2011, and the running in, all 7 dealer stamps the same however as he was flicking through the owners manual he held onto one of the service books and handed me a differnt one. (never seen a car with 2 service books, no idea what the other was - perhaps i was just imagining it)
Anyway - walked away with the intention of calling the servicing BMW dealer, taking note of the reg to do some "research", if all that came out ok - i was still sorley thinking...i want that car (yes stupid i know.. as you scream.. run a mile)
It was well into saturday afternoon at this point, knowing full well BMW service centres knock off at 12:30, it was also a bank holiday, so would have to wait until Tuesday.
Monday - stressed out thinking this is my perfect spec car, at a price i am ok with, i knew he had more people on the vehicle, called to say i would give him a deposit on the condition the milleage was as he said once i had confirmed with BMW. He said he had somone coming down who was keen.. thinking.. yeah yeah. Hopped in the car and drove over (hour and a bit into the drive called, only to find he was taking a deposit. Feeling grrrr at myself for wasting the morning watching junk on tv instead)
Feeling a bit gutted at the time, however i honestly cant work out if ive been really lucky, or should of just taken a gamble and gone for it - im a million times sure im not going to find a car with this specification again.
How easy is it to clock cars now a days, can a service book be forged with BMW stamps, would i leagally have any comeback if historic MOT came back with contraditcting milleage, or the BMW dealer said.. im sorry sir the milleage actually has a 1 in front. Is the fact hes stated hes not sure about the mileage or not stated it in the website his "get out clause"
Sorry that was a long one.
Sold the RS a few months ago, been keeping my ears to the ground for a low milleage E39 M5 (that 1 owner 28k, concours, smells like new kind of one), not sure how or why (perhaps the fact they dont exist) but i'm now stuck wanting an E60. (now in a trap that everything is either too old, with too many miles, or the wrong spec, color, or too new and therefore much money)
Anywho.. went and saw a facelift 57 plate car at a dealer at the weekend, perfect colour, amazing spec with everything on it - leather dash, individual paint, extended leather, indi sound system, ventilated heated m-active front seats seats, heated rear etc etc. (bearing in mind i have wasted years of my life on BMW configurators at work "dreaming" and i cant help but tick all the pointless boxes) So i was kind of excited by this, and it sort of fitted in my budget.
Phoned and spoke to the dealer.. sounded promising, dropped a comment along the lines of, the milleage wasnt listed in the advert as they think its had a speedo change, and it needs to be varified .... not worried too much, thought we could have a tamper dot that needs to be addressed.
Got there, nice chap, nice garage.. had a look around.. proper pebble dashed bonnet, bumper and windshield, however not to be put off, the interior and rest of the car where as described. Brought up the topic of the milleage.. was told its 64k, however after some research they think it should be 10k more than that... i said that worried me, as it would cause me problems when i need to sell it... to be told not to worry, for £200 it could be "changed to whatever". He would however be willing to negotiate on the price due to mileage news.
At which point i was thinking.. im looking at a car which has effectivley been clocked... and your condoning this. The 10k he originally mentioned could have been 100k for all i know.
Had a look at the service book, it had 59k as of October 2011, and the running in, all 7 dealer stamps the same however as he was flicking through the owners manual he held onto one of the service books and handed me a differnt one. (never seen a car with 2 service books, no idea what the other was - perhaps i was just imagining it)
Anyway - walked away with the intention of calling the servicing BMW dealer, taking note of the reg to do some "research", if all that came out ok - i was still sorley thinking...i want that car (yes stupid i know.. as you scream.. run a mile)
It was well into saturday afternoon at this point, knowing full well BMW service centres knock off at 12:30, it was also a bank holiday, so would have to wait until Tuesday.
Monday - stressed out thinking this is my perfect spec car, at a price i am ok with, i knew he had more people on the vehicle, called to say i would give him a deposit on the condition the milleage was as he said once i had confirmed with BMW. He said he had somone coming down who was keen.. thinking.. yeah yeah. Hopped in the car and drove over (hour and a bit into the drive called, only to find he was taking a deposit. Feeling grrrr at myself for wasting the morning watching junk on tv instead)
Feeling a bit gutted at the time, however i honestly cant work out if ive been really lucky, or should of just taken a gamble and gone for it - im a million times sure im not going to find a car with this specification again.
How easy is it to clock cars now a days, can a service book be forged with BMW stamps, would i leagally have any comeback if historic MOT came back with contraditcting milleage, or the BMW dealer said.. im sorry sir the milleage actually has a 1 in front. Is the fact hes stated hes not sure about the mileage or not stated it in the website his "get out clause"
Sorry that was a long one.
robk84 said:
How easy is it to clock cars now a days, can a service book be forged with BMW stamps, would i leagally have any comeback if historic MOT came back with contraditcting milleage, or the BMW dealer said.. im sorry sir the milleage actually has a 1 in front. Is the fact hes stated hes not sure about the mileage or not stated it in the website his "get out clause"
Sorry that was a long one.
It is VERY easy to clock cars nowadays, and service book can be forged. Central records at manufacturers like BMW make it harder but if you were to wind it back before every dealer visit/MOT nobody would ever know...Sorry that was a long one.
It's easier to clock cars now than it was with a power drill.
It's also very easy to read the true mileage via the engine ECU. As far as I know, the dash can be changed but this can't. If you're really interested in it I'd be tempted to speak to a mobile auto electrician who can talk to the car ECUs and read off the true mileage. If it costs you 40 quid on a car you really want it's probably worth it, just to know either way.
I have just bought an E61 M5 and the only advice I will offer is walk away from this one!
Only buy a E6x with a proper BMW (Mondial) warranty on it. Post in the MPower forum and you will get far better answers too.
Good luck and hope you find one as the E6x is imo one of the best cars ever made.
Only buy a E6x with a proper BMW (Mondial) warranty on it. Post in the MPower forum and you will get far better answers too.
Good luck and hope you find one as the E6x is imo one of the best cars ever made.
robk84 said:
I really dont know why i let cars stress me out. I honestly should just get a 2 litre diesel Insignia on a 3 year lease and be done with it.
Sold the RS a few months ago, been keeping my ears to the ground for a low milleage E39 M5 (that 1 owner 28k, concours, smells like new kind of one), not sure how or why (perhaps the fact they dont exist) but i'm now stuck wanting an E60. (now in a trap that everything is either too old, with too many miles, or the wrong spec, color, or too new and therefore much money)
Anywho.. went and saw a facelift 57 plate car at a dealer at the weekend, perfect colour, amazing spec with everything on it - leather dash, individual paint, extended leather, indi sound system, ventilated heated m-active front seats seats, heated rear etc etc. (bearing in mind i have wasted years of my life on BMW configurators at work "dreaming" and i cant help but tick all the pointless boxes) So i was kind of excited by this, and it sort of fitted in my budget.
Phoned and spoke to the dealer.. sounded promising, dropped a comment along the lines of, the milleage wasnt listed in the advert as they think its had a speedo change, and it needs to be varified .... not worried too much, thought we could have a tamper dot that needs to be addressed.
Got there, nice chap, nice garage.. had a look around.. proper pebble dashed bonnet, bumper and windshield, however not to be put off, the interior and rest of the car where as described. Brought up the topic of the milleage.. was told its 64k, however after some research they think it should be 10k more than that... i said that worried me, as it would cause me problems when i need to sell it... to be told not to worry, for £200 it could be "changed to whatever". He would however be willing to negotiate on the price due to mileage news.
At which point i was thinking.. im looking at a car which has effectivley been clocked... and your condoning this. The 10k he originally mentioned could have been 100k for all i know.
Had a look at the service book, it had 59k as of October 2011, and the running in, all 7 dealer stamps the same however as he was flicking through the owners manual he held onto one of the service books and handed me a differnt one. (never seen a car with 2 service books, no idea what the other was - perhaps i was just imagining it)
Anyway - walked away with the intention of calling the servicing BMW dealer, taking note of the reg to do some "research", if all that came out ok - i was still sorley thinking...i want that car (yes stupid i know.. as you scream.. run a mile)
It was well into saturday afternoon at this point, knowing full well BMW service centres knock off at 12:30, it was also a bank holiday, so would have to wait until Tuesday.
Monday - stressed out thinking this is my perfect spec car, at a price i am ok with, i knew he had more people on the vehicle, called to say i would give him a deposit on the condition the milleage was as he said once i had confirmed with BMW. He said he had somone coming down who was keen.. thinking.. yeah yeah. Hopped in the car and drove over (hour and a bit into the drive called, only to find he was taking a deposit. Feeling grrrr at myself for wasting the morning watching junk on tv instead)
Feeling a bit gutted at the time, however i honestly cant work out if ive been really lucky, or should of just taken a gamble and gone for it - im a million times sure im not going to find a car with this specification again.
How easy is it to clock cars now a days, can a service book be forged with BMW stamps, would i leagally have any comeback if historic MOT came back with contraditcting milleage, or the BMW dealer said.. im sorry sir the milleage actually has a 1 in front. Is the fact hes stated hes not sure about the mileage or not stated it in the website his "get out clause"
Sorry that was a long one.
BMW paint is rubbish and if it's been a motorway car it will look sandblasted. it may have ticked all the boxes, but the one that needs to be ticked by the dealer on page one of the customer-dealer contact is missing. It's a big box called integrity.Sold the RS a few months ago, been keeping my ears to the ground for a low milleage E39 M5 (that 1 owner 28k, concours, smells like new kind of one), not sure how or why (perhaps the fact they dont exist) but i'm now stuck wanting an E60. (now in a trap that everything is either too old, with too many miles, or the wrong spec, color, or too new and therefore much money)
Anywho.. went and saw a facelift 57 plate car at a dealer at the weekend, perfect colour, amazing spec with everything on it - leather dash, individual paint, extended leather, indi sound system, ventilated heated m-active front seats seats, heated rear etc etc. (bearing in mind i have wasted years of my life on BMW configurators at work "dreaming" and i cant help but tick all the pointless boxes) So i was kind of excited by this, and it sort of fitted in my budget.
Phoned and spoke to the dealer.. sounded promising, dropped a comment along the lines of, the milleage wasnt listed in the advert as they think its had a speedo change, and it needs to be varified .... not worried too much, thought we could have a tamper dot that needs to be addressed.
Got there, nice chap, nice garage.. had a look around.. proper pebble dashed bonnet, bumper and windshield, however not to be put off, the interior and rest of the car where as described. Brought up the topic of the milleage.. was told its 64k, however after some research they think it should be 10k more than that... i said that worried me, as it would cause me problems when i need to sell it... to be told not to worry, for £200 it could be "changed to whatever". He would however be willing to negotiate on the price due to mileage news.
At which point i was thinking.. im looking at a car which has effectivley been clocked... and your condoning this. The 10k he originally mentioned could have been 100k for all i know.
Had a look at the service book, it had 59k as of October 2011, and the running in, all 7 dealer stamps the same however as he was flicking through the owners manual he held onto one of the service books and handed me a differnt one. (never seen a car with 2 service books, no idea what the other was - perhaps i was just imagining it)
Anyway - walked away with the intention of calling the servicing BMW dealer, taking note of the reg to do some "research", if all that came out ok - i was still sorley thinking...i want that car (yes stupid i know.. as you scream.. run a mile)
It was well into saturday afternoon at this point, knowing full well BMW service centres knock off at 12:30, it was also a bank holiday, so would have to wait until Tuesday.
Monday - stressed out thinking this is my perfect spec car, at a price i am ok with, i knew he had more people on the vehicle, called to say i would give him a deposit on the condition the milleage was as he said once i had confirmed with BMW. He said he had somone coming down who was keen.. thinking.. yeah yeah. Hopped in the car and drove over (hour and a bit into the drive called, only to find he was taking a deposit. Feeling grrrr at myself for wasting the morning watching junk on tv instead)
Feeling a bit gutted at the time, however i honestly cant work out if ive been really lucky, or should of just taken a gamble and gone for it - im a million times sure im not going to find a car with this specification again.
How easy is it to clock cars now a days, can a service book be forged with BMW stamps, would i leagally have any comeback if historic MOT came back with contraditcting milleage, or the BMW dealer said.. im sorry sir the milleage actually has a 1 in front. Is the fact hes stated hes not sure about the mileage or not stated it in the website his "get out clause"
Sorry that was a long one.
Walk and don't look back. It's hardly a one off car. There will be others.
Thanks guys, and there i was thinking i was up late 
OracIe - Yeah i did, no mileage discrepancies listed.
0a - Well it was £23k, but got told this was wrong when i got there due to a f**k up by the respected listing companies and it was actually £24k as per their w/s. Im going to see a lesser spec facelift car (still has the important bits for £22k on saturday so all is not lost) i really want the LCI updates. But i have this niggle at the back of my head that i could save some serious cash and go a year older, and get a pre-facelift, possibly also save on tax, and put the differnce into a petrol fund.
Contigo - thanks, good advice and deep down you are most probably correct
OracIe - Yeah i did, no mileage discrepancies listed.
0a - Well it was £23k, but got told this was wrong when i got there due to a f**k up by the respected listing companies and it was actually £24k as per their w/s. Im going to see a lesser spec facelift car (still has the important bits for £22k on saturday so all is not lost) i really want the LCI updates. But i have this niggle at the back of my head that i could save some serious cash and go a year older, and get a pre-facelift, possibly also save on tax, and put the differnce into a petrol fund.
Contigo - thanks, good advice and deep down you are most probably correct
I think you got lucky. If it's been clocked then who knows what else could have been done to it, or not!
I tend to car hunt with a heavy bias towards gut feeling. If anything about an ad looks or feels dodgy, I won't even read to the end. There's plenty more cars out there, and another one will almost always appear. Even if I end up paying slightly more, it's not worth the potential trouble.
I tend to car hunt with a heavy bias towards gut feeling. If anything about an ad looks or feels dodgy, I won't even read to the end. There's plenty more cars out there, and another one will almost always appear. Even if I end up paying slightly more, it's not worth the potential trouble.
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