Your Opinions please
Discussion
Hi - I am new to PH but my OH reads every day (and night!).
As an employer, a member of staff got to the totting up of points on his licence, we did a letter of support and he got "let off" well, instead of the 3-6 (was expecting 6), got given 5, so the points now total 11.
Now he has been caught again (all points are still valid at date of offence).
From the research I have done (looking at the protection of the business and the future employment status); seems he is more than likely to get the 3-6 option again, which will tot his pot to over 12; therefore a ban is more than likely; do you agree?
He thinks that he will get a months ban (maybe confused with getting a 7-56 day ban for the offence on its own, it was a bad speed!), but this will be a totting offence surely.
Where do we stand of providing a letter again, not sure the same trick will work, also does not make the employer look smart. Dont think there is any other hardship but not our business really. He needs his licence for the job.
I would really value your opinion.
Cheers
As an employer, a member of staff got to the totting up of points on his licence, we did a letter of support and he got "let off" well, instead of the 3-6 (was expecting 6), got given 5, so the points now total 11.
Now he has been caught again (all points are still valid at date of offence).
From the research I have done (looking at the protection of the business and the future employment status); seems he is more than likely to get the 3-6 option again, which will tot his pot to over 12; therefore a ban is more than likely; do you agree?
He thinks that he will get a months ban (maybe confused with getting a 7-56 day ban for the offence on its own, it was a bad speed!), but this will be a totting offence surely.
Where do we stand of providing a letter again, not sure the same trick will work, also does not make the employer look smart. Dont think there is any other hardship but not our business really. He needs his licence for the job.
I would really value your opinion.
Cheers
If the speed is high enough to justify a ban in its own right (for example, 100mph in a 70mph limit), he may get lucky and end up with a short term ban. As far as I'm aware though, the guidelines tend to suggest Magistrates should not hand down short term bans like that if they would result in someone avoiding one for totting up if they got the points instead.
As for the hardship, it's unlikely just the fact he's lose his job on its own would justify avoiding a totting up ban, unless he could show him losing his licence would lead to others almost certainly losing their jobs.
It looks like he didn't learn from a close shave last time. Is there any evidence he'd learn from this one? You might be better off allowing him to lose his licence and dispose of his services once it takes effect.
As for the hardship, it's unlikely just the fact he's lose his job on its own would justify avoiding a totting up ban, unless he could show him losing his licence would lead to others almost certainly losing their jobs.
It looks like he didn't learn from a close shave last time. Is there any evidence he'd learn from this one? You might be better off allowing him to lose his licence and dispose of his services once it takes effect.
10 Pence Short said:
If the speed is high enough to justify a ban in its own right (for example, 100mph in a 70mph limit), he may get lucky and end up with a short term ban. As far as I'm aware though, the guidelines tend to suggest Magistrates should not hand down short term bans like that if they would result in someone avoiding one for totting up if they got the points instead.
As for the hardship, it's unlikely just the fact he's lose his job on its own would justify avoiding a totting up ban, unless he could show him losing his licence would lead to others almost certainly losing their jobs.
It looks like he didn't learn from a close shave last time. Is there any evidence he'd learn from this one? You might be better off allowing him to lose his licence and dispose of his services once it takes effect.
Thanks - think it was mid 80's in a 50. No evidence it seems! Cheers.As for the hardship, it's unlikely just the fact he's lose his job on its own would justify avoiding a totting up ban, unless he could show him losing his licence would lead to others almost certainly losing their jobs.
It looks like he didn't learn from a close shave last time. Is there any evidence he'd learn from this one? You might be better off allowing him to lose his licence and dispose of his services once it takes effect.
A few years ago I had 3 points and I got caught by a hidden camera 3 times on the same day which took me to the 12 points limit. I made a court appearance and managed to avoid a ban. My solicitor used the fact my brother is disabled and relies on me for transport as well as the fact I could lose my job, etc. I was lucky to get off with a fine but I had to sell my Calibra and get a 1.1 Punto for a few years to make it harder to lose sight of my speed and to keep the insurance down.
I also know of an MD of a former company I worked for who had 15 points but still kept his license. As long as this employee gets a decent solicitor it can happen.
If they does lose their license and it is a requirement of their job then you have grounds to dismiss should you want to. I'd talk to them before hand and make them aware of this possibility.
I also know of an MD of a former company I worked for who had 15 points but still kept his license. As long as this employee gets a decent solicitor it can happen.
If they does lose their license and it is a requirement of their job then you have grounds to dismiss should you want to. I'd talk to them before hand and make them aware of this possibility.
It's a 6 month ban on totting but excess speed can result in a higher discretionary ban. Only exception is proving "exceptional hardship" which means more than ordinary hardship including losing your job. It tends to be applied where others suffer who are entirely reliant on him having a licence. IN general, it's very hard to get a court to accept it save in circumstances as highlighted in the post above.
Edited by LuS1fer on Thursday 10th May 11:54
snowycat said:
Thanks - think it was mid 80's in a 50. No evidence it seems! Cheers.
Does the vehicle he drives have any company related identification on it? Does he drive clients around at any point?Neither of those things when combined with doing 30mph over the limit do your company any favours...
OP - I sympathise with your situation, mainly because if your employee can't travel, then you lose out. Providing a letter of support was perfectly reasonable. But at the same time your employee needed to get the hint - drive more slowly or face the inevitable consequences.
Rather than post a situations vacant notice - costing your company more money, I suggest you give him a choice when his ban comes.
1. He can still do his job but he needs to take public transport or cycle to wherever he would normally go, and he'd get reimbursed at the levels he was when he had a car, plus he has to do the same quantity of work (i.e. because using public transport takes longer to get anywhere he accounts for that on his own time).
2. He can still do his job but he needs to have somebody drive him - e.g. his wife. If he drives under a ban he is sacked.
3. He can resign.
Rather than post a situations vacant notice - costing your company more money, I suggest you give him a choice when his ban comes.
1. He can still do his job but he needs to take public transport or cycle to wherever he would normally go, and he'd get reimbursed at the levels he was when he had a car, plus he has to do the same quantity of work (i.e. because using public transport takes longer to get anywhere he accounts for that on his own time).
2. He can still do his job but he needs to have somebody drive him - e.g. his wife. If he drives under a ban he is sacked.
3. He can resign.
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