How important is the engine to driving enjoyment?
Discussion
I have owned a couple of cars that would have been half decent if it wasn't for their crappy engines, namely a 1995 Vauxhall Astra 1.4 (Hi-Torque) which is the only car that I have owned that went faster in 4th than 5th and a mk4 Volkswagen Golf 2.0 GTi but how important is the engine in determining whether a car is good to drive or not?
Take my car for example, a 2004 Impreza WRX. Great car but having driven a normally-aspirated Impreza, pretty ordinary without a turbo. On the other hand, my wife drives a Fiat 500 1.2, which is the "base" engine in essence. I would expect it to drive just as well with any of the other engine options though.
Are there any more cars which are good to drive regardless of which engine they have? I have always found MkV and MKVI Golfs to be a good steer regardless of the engine, likewise Focuses (Foci?), Fiestas and C-Class Mercs.
I like the new VW Polo but are put off by the choice of engines available on the cheaper models. The 1.2 petrol is too noisy, the 1.4 petrol too gutless and the 1.2 TDI too slow. My dad has the 1.2 TDI and I find it much slower, just as noisy and no more economical than my old-shape 1.4 TDI, which had a decent turn of speed for a 1.4. Likewise, I have always been underwhelmed by 4-pot BMWs. The first one I drove was an E36 318 Compact auto which was just awful (not a patch on the E30 325i which I owned subsequently). I appreciate that BMW may be shying away from 6-cylinder engines now but I like my BMWs with a straight six engine.
So are there any cars out there which are good regardless of engine choice?
Take my car for example, a 2004 Impreza WRX. Great car but having driven a normally-aspirated Impreza, pretty ordinary without a turbo. On the other hand, my wife drives a Fiat 500 1.2, which is the "base" engine in essence. I would expect it to drive just as well with any of the other engine options though.
Are there any more cars which are good to drive regardless of which engine they have? I have always found MkV and MKVI Golfs to be a good steer regardless of the engine, likewise Focuses (Foci?), Fiestas and C-Class Mercs.
I like the new VW Polo but are put off by the choice of engines available on the cheaper models. The 1.2 petrol is too noisy, the 1.4 petrol too gutless and the 1.2 TDI too slow. My dad has the 1.2 TDI and I find it much slower, just as noisy and no more economical than my old-shape 1.4 TDI, which had a decent turn of speed for a 1.4. Likewise, I have always been underwhelmed by 4-pot BMWs. The first one I drove was an E36 318 Compact auto which was just awful (not a patch on the E30 325i which I owned subsequently). I appreciate that BMW may be shying away from 6-cylinder engines now but I like my BMWs with a straight six engine.
So are there any cars out there which are good regardless of engine choice?
To me, not very as long as it generates enough power to make overtaking plausible.
If I cared about engine character, I wouldn't drive an Elise.
ETA: Having said that, a really bad engine setup can completely ruin a car. Poor throttle response is one of my pet hates in modern cars.
If I cared about engine character, I wouldn't drive an Elise.
ETA: Having said that, a really bad engine setup can completely ruin a car. Poor throttle response is one of my pet hates in modern cars.
Edited by kambites on Monday 14th May 15:04
Surely it can depend on the type of driving? Motorway driving in a 107, for example, is woeful - but point a 107 at some twisty country roads and it's a hoot...
The OH's Honda Jazz isn't much fun on the motorway either, but it's a pretty rev-happy engine which makes the right noises at the right times - sometimes I might even get some speed up.
The OH's Honda Jazz isn't much fun on the motorway either, but it's a pretty rev-happy engine which makes the right noises at the right times - sometimes I might even get some speed up.
It's important to me. There are lots of engines that are very similar in terms of power and performance but the difference in power delivery and sound changes the overall experience. I prefer a good n/a 6 pot over a turbo 4 pot of similar performance for example. I'd not argue against anyone choosing the other, just personal preference.
Reardy Mister said:
You can have a good drive from an ordinary engine, but a good engine will add 100% to the experience.
Absolutely. My GTV V6 was in many objective respects, quite poor in lots of areas (handling, quality, reliability, etc). But that engine was FANTASTIC.... completely made up for any failings and made it the best car I've ever owned.crashley said:
i'd say in the grand scheme of things, prob not that much - except perhaps on track. I'd even say it's possibly more fun hussling an underpowered, useless PoS along your favourite stretch of b-road, than it is in a punchier engined sportscar.
To me it's not about the speed on the road. A lovely straight 6 can give you more enjoyment than a similar powered 4 cylinder car - simply because of the noise, the throttle response and the way the engine delivers the power.For me, Noise,throttle response and power delivery are more important than power when driving on the road.
It's the single biggest factor in my opinion. Perhaps not "the engine", but "the suitability of the engine to the rest of the car"
Little buzzy engines are great in lightweight FWD cars, but not in a barge.
In terms of sports cars/performance cars there are a couple of things i look for
- peak power close to the red line, and a nice straight line to get there
- peak torque not too early, and torque drop off not too sudden - torque should be as flat as possible
Little buzzy engines are great in lightweight FWD cars, but not in a barge.
In terms of sports cars/performance cars there are a couple of things i look for
- peak power close to the red line, and a nice straight line to get there
- peak torque not too early, and torque drop off not too sudden - torque should be as flat as possible
I can compare Audi A3 and Porsche Cayman. Both are small cars, both are in the lower price range than other models from Audi and Porsche.
Audi is a V6 3.2 – the largest engine you can have in A3.
Cayman is 2.7 – the smallest engine in the range (just the very old Boxter 2.5 is smaller).
Believe me; the Cayman is way more fun.
Audi is a V6 3.2 – the largest engine you can have in A3.
Cayman is 2.7 – the smallest engine in the range (just the very old Boxter 2.5 is smaller).
Believe me; the Cayman is way more fun.
Central to me, if it's got a combination of power, thrives on revs (not necessarily the same as having a high red line) and a good sound, I will probably like it. Having a great chassis is nothing if the engine is not inspiring, hence why my test drive of a Clio 182 didn't blow me away despite the better "steering feel" of the Clio, compared to the Civic Type R I bought instead.
An engine that "thrives on revs" is a point I feel I should elaborate on, because having a high redline is not necessarily "thriving" on the revs if the car does not feel suited to it. While I prefer a high redline when I can get one, a car that is strong until as close to the redline as possible is most enjoyable for me.
As for sound, I'm a total sucker for loud and toneful cars. A lot of turbo cars leave me a bit cold in this sense that they can be very capable, but if they sound like a hairdryer then it's not so inspiring. I will admit that sometimes I accelerate hard or build up speed in a gear just to coast off the throttle back down to normal travelling speed without shifting gear, just to hear the multitude of pops, crackling and that touring car style "angry hornet" noise as the revs drop. I know some people like fast and quiet, and I suppose stealth has it's place and I can respect that, but again, having an engine that inspires and rewards the keen driver with a glorious soundtrack is something that really adds to my enjoyment when driving.
An engine that "thrives on revs" is a point I feel I should elaborate on, because having a high redline is not necessarily "thriving" on the revs if the car does not feel suited to it. While I prefer a high redline when I can get one, a car that is strong until as close to the redline as possible is most enjoyable for me.
As for sound, I'm a total sucker for loud and toneful cars. A lot of turbo cars leave me a bit cold in this sense that they can be very capable, but if they sound like a hairdryer then it's not so inspiring. I will admit that sometimes I accelerate hard or build up speed in a gear just to coast off the throttle back down to normal travelling speed without shifting gear, just to hear the multitude of pops, crackling and that touring car style "angry hornet" noise as the revs drop. I know some people like fast and quiet, and I suppose stealth has it's place and I can respect that, but again, having an engine that inspires and rewards the keen driver with a glorious soundtrack is something that really adds to my enjoyment when driving.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff