RWD handing in real life the same as computer games?
Discussion
Just been driving around in Forza 4 like some kind of RWD driving god and it got me thinking.
I have only ever owned FWD cars (sorry PH'ers) so I wondered if games such as Forza 4 and Grand Turismo actually give a realistic perception of RWD handling.
From a FWD point of view, I am pretty sure understeer is about right when the fronted just goes straight on but really you only get sense with your sight on the computer and the actual feel when driving for real is totally different. I have used force feedback wheels to get a slight sense of the wheel feeling lighter or fighting against you but I guess the way it feels for the drivers seat is totally different.
Basically, if I can hoon around the ring arse out in a Nissan 350z on the Xbox, would it help me in anyway if I tried it in real life. Or, would I end up backwards, in a barrier at the first bend?
It reminds me a bit of the gadget show when the bloke taught himself to fly on simulators then did it for real.
I have only ever owned FWD cars (sorry PH'ers) so I wondered if games such as Forza 4 and Grand Turismo actually give a realistic perception of RWD handling.
From a FWD point of view, I am pretty sure understeer is about right when the fronted just goes straight on but really you only get sense with your sight on the computer and the actual feel when driving for real is totally different. I have used force feedback wheels to get a slight sense of the wheel feeling lighter or fighting against you but I guess the way it feels for the drivers seat is totally different.
Basically, if I can hoon around the ring arse out in a Nissan 350z on the Xbox, would it help me in anyway if I tried it in real life. Or, would I end up backwards, in a barrier at the first bend?
It reminds me a bit of the gadget show when the bloke taught himself to fly on simulators then did it for real.
.gr1340 said:
Just been driving around in Forza 4 like some kind of RWD driving god and it got me thinking.
I have only ever owned FWD cars (sorry PH'ers) so I wondered if games such as Forza 4 and Grand Turismo actually give a realistic perception of RWD handling.
From a FWD point of view, I am pretty sure understeer is about right when the fronted just goes straight on but really you only get sense with your sight on the computer and the actual feel when driving for real is totally different. I have used force feedback wheels to get a slight sense of the wheel feeling lighter or fighting against you but I guess the way it feels for the drivers seat is totally different.
Basically, if I can hoon around the ring arse out in a Nissan 350z on the Xbox, would it help me in anyway if I tried it in real life. Or, would I end up backwards, in a barrier at the first bend?
It reminds me a bit of the gadget show when the bloke taught himself to fly on simulators then did it for real.
The difference is generally the perception of speed. Something you don't get in a game - yes thats the same with fwd real vs. virtual, but a front wheel drive car will tend to scrub off speed. If you put the same steering inputs at the same speeds as a game into a real life rwd car (same car) - itll react very similarly. I have only ever owned FWD cars (sorry PH'ers) so I wondered if games such as Forza 4 and Grand Turismo actually give a realistic perception of RWD handling.
From a FWD point of view, I am pretty sure understeer is about right when the fronted just goes straight on but really you only get sense with your sight on the computer and the actual feel when driving for real is totally different. I have used force feedback wheels to get a slight sense of the wheel feeling lighter or fighting against you but I guess the way it feels for the drivers seat is totally different.
Basically, if I can hoon around the ring arse out in a Nissan 350z on the Xbox, would it help me in anyway if I tried it in real life. Or, would I end up backwards, in a barrier at the first bend?
It reminds me a bit of the gadget show when the bloke taught himself to fly on simulators then did it for real.
However, in real life you'll feel the car moving around under you before things get all tokyo drift, and steering inputs will be much much smoother - so their not as scary as games suggest. For most cars you have to be a complete tool or in hooligan mode to get them really out of shape.
I always get the feeling that they overpower RWD cars in games (because it's more fun to be fighting traction all the time)- compared to watching racing and road tests where they seem more muted.
Maybe that's because they're professionals and I've just sat down with a beer and a wheel to see how sideways you can go around the nordschleife in a bmw m1.
My 2p, only ever driven FWD irl
Maybe that's because they're professionals and I've just sat down with a beer and a wheel to see how sideways you can go around the nordschleife in a bmw m1.
My 2p, only ever driven FWD irl
Nissan GT Academy or whatever it's called obviously think there's something in it. I can't remember if they used Forza / Gran Turismo but the principle is the same whichever they used.
I'd say when you're playing a game your missing out on a lot of the feedback you'd get in real life. Seat of the pants feel, steering feel, etc. It can't do any harm though, really.
If you went from sliding about a track on a game to trying to replicate it in real life straight away, I think it's a fast way to end up in a hedge. If you got in a car and tried to progressively improve, then maybe some of the skills are transferrable but who knows...
I'd say when you're playing a game your missing out on a lot of the feedback you'd get in real life. Seat of the pants feel, steering feel, etc. It can't do any harm though, really.
If you went from sliding about a track on a game to trying to replicate it in real life straight away, I think it's a fast way to end up in a hedge. If you got in a car and tried to progressively improve, then maybe some of the skills are transferrable but who knows...
Max_Torque said:
A few years ago one of the gaming mags got nissan to lend them a GT-R, which they then held a GT4 "virtual race" competition, the winners of which got to take the GT-R on track. It ended badly............ in the barriers ;-)
Think I remember this. Wasn't it in Evo and it was a R34 that they stacked at Le Mans? Could be wrong though. Well... the Nissan GT academy suggests that some people have got it.
A car with some of them on board just finished high up in class and in the top 30 overall at the Nurburgring 24 hours. So, can't be that wrong.
I think the sensation of rwdiness gets on top of real life in a game because we all think we're driving gods and turn off all the aids. That and upgrade the car in many ways.
Probably safer IRL.
A car with some of them on board just finished high up in class and in the top 30 overall at the Nurburgring 24 hours. So, can't be that wrong.
I think the sensation of rwdiness gets on top of real life in a game because we all think we're driving gods and turn off all the aids. That and upgrade the car in many ways.
Probably safer IRL.
I get alot of stick for this but I can directly relate my car control and my oversteer antics to GT and Forza, I'm 18 and have arsed about in Mx5's right upto TVR's and can tell you for sure that you don't get the feeling (obviously) from virtual play nor the space awareness / distance perception.
However you do get the balance to view when sliding a car and co ordination of when to apply opposite lock/ and or apply more power etc.
However you do get the balance to view when sliding a car and co ordination of when to apply opposite lock/ and or apply more power etc.
hardcorehobbit said:
Well... the Nissan GT academy suggests that some people have got it.
They picked the best driver out of a bunch of people who were already driving enthusiasts then gave them a lot of tuition and put them in a car with a fairly big budget behind it. I'd have been more surprised if they were unsuccessful.
In real life, it's usually a lot more heart-pounding. At least until you're used to it, and even then it often more than raises an eyebrow. This is probably the biggest difference. Like anything when the adrenaline goes you behave differently to how you'd expect. I real life you'd be a lot more scared of even finding out what happens when you overstep the limit, so you approach it and respond very differently. It's almost incomparable, even though the actual physics of the car moving are generally accurate.
I also find few games seem to find you in a fishtail - I.e. over correction. Almost certainly because of the game controller being so easy to use. In reality a steering wheel spinning with its own force can be much harder to have control over and fear of over-correcting is pretty normal.
Finally it's often much harder than in a game to try to get oversteer in a real car. For a variety of reasons - how violent you're prepared to be with steering inputs, or just the natural balance of most cars. I found the Honda s2000 to be oversteerey at any speed but to understeer at low speed or in tighter bends. Few games seem to encompass that realistic difference of behaviour at different speeds and in different conditions.
Grand prix legends is still probably the purest racing game, to me. Some of the newer stuff is okay though.
I also find few games seem to find you in a fishtail - I.e. over correction. Almost certainly because of the game controller being so easy to use. In reality a steering wheel spinning with its own force can be much harder to have control over and fear of over-correcting is pretty normal.
Finally it's often much harder than in a game to try to get oversteer in a real car. For a variety of reasons - how violent you're prepared to be with steering inputs, or just the natural balance of most cars. I found the Honda s2000 to be oversteerey at any speed but to understeer at low speed or in tighter bends. Few games seem to encompass that realistic difference of behaviour at different speeds and in different conditions.
Grand prix legends is still probably the purest racing game, to me. Some of the newer stuff is okay though.
EDLT said:
They picked the best driver out of a bunch of people who were already driving enthusiasts then gave them a lot of tuition and put them in a car with a fairly big budget behind it. I'd have been more surprised if they were unsuccessful.
correct, if i remember properly lucas ordonez had already competed in a fair amount of karting and low level open-wheel. It's just good for the game's sales to forget that Pentoman said:
I also find few games seem to find you in a fishtail - I.e. over correction. Almost certainly because of the game controller being so easy to use.
Actually you get a little "help" from the game itself, push the stick all the way to one side while going slowly and you'll get full lock (so you can turn around). Now do the same thing at 100mph, the wheels will only turn slightly.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff