Discussion
hi all,
i am new to these forums (so glad i found it)
i hae a situation right now, i tried to post on speed, plod, and the law, but as i am new, i can't post on it right now.
therefore, i hope its ok to post on here (sorry, if i am breaking any forum rules, but i really want to ask your opinions and thoughts)
anyway, so here goes.
on may 18th, i was clocked doing 101mph on the m6 toll south. a week later, i was informed by my company to whom the letter from the police went, that i will be served with notice of intention to prosecute. my details have been forwarded from mhy work to the police and they will soon be contacting me.
now this is what happened. i remember leaving work that evening to take my usual route home from shropshire down to m6 j3. whilst i was driving, all of a sudden, i experienced a sharp pain in my stomach, and it was a case of needing the toilet right there and then, and not just to urinate!!! i was in a very uncomfortable position, without a toilet in sight! the nearest toilet was at the corley servies just before m6 j3. now given what i was experiencing, though i didn't even know it at the time, my mind and body was just telling me to get to a toilet ASAP, and in that, without even consciously knowing at the time, i must hae stepped on the gas to get to a toilet.
i just didn't know what alternatie i had! i couldn't turn back, can't reverse back to my office, couldn't get off on the hard shoulder to walk it off, as it was dangerous and if i had stood up, then i would need to go to the toilet right there and then, so sitting in my seat was the right place to be. what was i supposed to do, have myself an embarassing accident in my company car?
the only thing i could do was to get to the nearest toilet.
anyway, i eventually got home which is only 5 mins from m6 j3 and ran straight to the toilet!!!
now, i do hae some previous violations
1. traffic light infraction in june 06 (my car at the time had momentum, and it was a 50/50 going through an amber when your mind tells you to do 2 things at once and you either hit the breaks or go, i went! apparently jumped a red, though i still to this day say it was amber, but i took it and didn't contest it)
2. i was pulled over my a PO in july 2007. fair cop i was speeding.
3. sep 07, i was caught doing 36 in a 30 zone. again, fair cop, i was unfamiliar with the area, lack of concentration, didn't contest it.
the last of these was 4 1/2 years ago, so my licence is clean, though on the paper part of my licence, it still shows the incidents with dates (i didn't send my licence off to whereer to get them taken off - if that is one does, i am not sure)
since the last incident, i have been extra careful, and in the 150,000 miles plus i have driven since then, i have been ok without incident.
now, that this has happened, i feel really deflated and down, especially given the circumstances. due to the speed, i could be banned, which would be terrible, as i would lose my job, as my job requires me to drive. this would then have a knock in on effect on home life, as i have a wife and 3 young kids who depend on me. my wife sufferes from post natal depression, and thus relies on me to do a lot of the driving, school runs, weekly shop, doctors/dentist appointments etc,
i guess i will find out in time, but can you tell me what happens from here? would i have to go to a judge and plead my case? given my job is on the line, do you think they will see sense? has anybody else had a similar situation in terms of the circumstance or the speed you were doing? realistically what can i expect?
in my honest opinion, i hope that a judge would understand than i was in a no win situation and would let me off, but i guess anybody caught speeding, regardless of the situation has to pay a price right?
what do you guys think will happen?
ODLH
btw. on my previous 3 infractions, not once i have been sent on the drivers awareness course
i am new to these forums (so glad i found it)
i hae a situation right now, i tried to post on speed, plod, and the law, but as i am new, i can't post on it right now.
therefore, i hope its ok to post on here (sorry, if i am breaking any forum rules, but i really want to ask your opinions and thoughts)
anyway, so here goes.
on may 18th, i was clocked doing 101mph on the m6 toll south. a week later, i was informed by my company to whom the letter from the police went, that i will be served with notice of intention to prosecute. my details have been forwarded from mhy work to the police and they will soon be contacting me.
now this is what happened. i remember leaving work that evening to take my usual route home from shropshire down to m6 j3. whilst i was driving, all of a sudden, i experienced a sharp pain in my stomach, and it was a case of needing the toilet right there and then, and not just to urinate!!! i was in a very uncomfortable position, without a toilet in sight! the nearest toilet was at the corley servies just before m6 j3. now given what i was experiencing, though i didn't even know it at the time, my mind and body was just telling me to get to a toilet ASAP, and in that, without even consciously knowing at the time, i must hae stepped on the gas to get to a toilet.
i just didn't know what alternatie i had! i couldn't turn back, can't reverse back to my office, couldn't get off on the hard shoulder to walk it off, as it was dangerous and if i had stood up, then i would need to go to the toilet right there and then, so sitting in my seat was the right place to be. what was i supposed to do, have myself an embarassing accident in my company car?
the only thing i could do was to get to the nearest toilet.
anyway, i eventually got home which is only 5 mins from m6 j3 and ran straight to the toilet!!!
now, i do hae some previous violations
1. traffic light infraction in june 06 (my car at the time had momentum, and it was a 50/50 going through an amber when your mind tells you to do 2 things at once and you either hit the breaks or go, i went! apparently jumped a red, though i still to this day say it was amber, but i took it and didn't contest it)
2. i was pulled over my a PO in july 2007. fair cop i was speeding.
3. sep 07, i was caught doing 36 in a 30 zone. again, fair cop, i was unfamiliar with the area, lack of concentration, didn't contest it.
the last of these was 4 1/2 years ago, so my licence is clean, though on the paper part of my licence, it still shows the incidents with dates (i didn't send my licence off to whereer to get them taken off - if that is one does, i am not sure)
since the last incident, i have been extra careful, and in the 150,000 miles plus i have driven since then, i have been ok without incident.
now, that this has happened, i feel really deflated and down, especially given the circumstances. due to the speed, i could be banned, which would be terrible, as i would lose my job, as my job requires me to drive. this would then have a knock in on effect on home life, as i have a wife and 3 young kids who depend on me. my wife sufferes from post natal depression, and thus relies on me to do a lot of the driving, school runs, weekly shop, doctors/dentist appointments etc,
i guess i will find out in time, but can you tell me what happens from here? would i have to go to a judge and plead my case? given my job is on the line, do you think they will see sense? has anybody else had a similar situation in terms of the circumstance or the speed you were doing? realistically what can i expect?
in my honest opinion, i hope that a judge would understand than i was in a no win situation and would let me off, but i guess anybody caught speeding, regardless of the situation has to pay a price right?
what do you guys think will happen?
ODLH
btw. on my previous 3 infractions, not once i have been sent on the drivers awareness course
t my seat if it was bad. VR46 said:
Get fergies solicitor and you'll get off, don't try represent yourself. The courts have heard it all before so have little sympathy.
If your very lucky you may just get 9Pts and a large fine.
I'm getting worried now.If your very lucky you may just get 9Pts and a large fine.
My intention was to go to court if called upon, and tell them the exact truth. Sounds like I'm better of trying to lie myself out of it (which I won't). The thing is, given what happened, can someone tell me seriously, what i should have done in that situiation? and please be serious? what would you have done?
In terms of correspondence from the police, what should i expect? a summons to go to court? does the court take into your work and personal circumstances, i.e. if your job depended on it?
There are two categories if a court is considering disqualification and they are special reasons for not disqualifying or not endorsing and mitigating circumstances.
HOWEVER,the former relates to an OBLIGATORY disqualification but excess speed is a DISCRETIONARY disqualification so does not really apply as what you would be arguing is that the court should not exercise its DISCRETION.
However, by comparison, for special reasons, a sudden medical emergency can constitute a special reason though that can also arguably be a defence based on "necessity" or "duress of circumstances". In essence what you have to prove is that there was no alternative but for you to drive and that you had explored every other reasonable alternative before driving.
However, be warned, you are unlikely to get much sympathy because the courts hear this excuse all the time and are very unlikely to believe you without some form of medical condition or proof - and that will cost you and I am not convinced that any expert would conclude a digestive condition as described could not be foreseen. What should you have done? You should have gone before you went out.
The flip side is that 101 is not the ultimate speeding offence so the court may simply award a higher number of points rather than disqualifying you because, as I have said, a disqualification is discretionary so you need to major less on the crap-happiness of your anal sphincter and more on the loss of your job and its effect on your family. Most courts are happy to give a higher number of points to keep you on the straight and narrow as long as you don't have any significant history of speeding and any spent points will be ignored.
HOWEVER,the former relates to an OBLIGATORY disqualification but excess speed is a DISCRETIONARY disqualification so does not really apply as what you would be arguing is that the court should not exercise its DISCRETION.
However, by comparison, for special reasons, a sudden medical emergency can constitute a special reason though that can also arguably be a defence based on "necessity" or "duress of circumstances". In essence what you have to prove is that there was no alternative but for you to drive and that you had explored every other reasonable alternative before driving.
However, be warned, you are unlikely to get much sympathy because the courts hear this excuse all the time and are very unlikely to believe you without some form of medical condition or proof - and that will cost you and I am not convinced that any expert would conclude a digestive condition as described could not be foreseen. What should you have done? You should have gone before you went out.
The flip side is that 101 is not the ultimate speeding offence so the court may simply award a higher number of points rather than disqualifying you because, as I have said, a disqualification is discretionary so you need to major less on the crap-happiness of your anal sphincter and more on the loss of your job and its effect on your family. Most courts are happy to give a higher number of points to keep you on the straight and narrow as long as you don't have any significant history of speeding and any spent points will be ignored.
LuS1fer said:
There are two categories if a court is considering disqualification and they are special reasons for not disqualifying or not endorsing and mitigating circumstances.
HOWEVER,the former relates to an OBLIGATORY disqualification but excess speed is a DISCRETIONARY disqualification so does not really apply as what you would be arguing is that the court should not exercise its DISCRETION.
However, by comparison, for special reasons, a sudden medical emergency can constitute a special reason though that can also arguably be a defence based on "necessity" or "duress of circumstances". In essence what you have to prove is that there was no alternative but for you to drive and that you had explored every other reasonable alternative before driving.
However, be warned, you are unlikely to get much sympathy because the courts hear this excuse all the time and are very unlikely to believe you without some form of medical condition or proof - and that will cost you and I am not convinced that any expert would conclude a digestive condition as described could not be foreseen. What should you have done? You should have gone before you went out.
The flip side is that 101 is not the ultimate speeding offence so the court may simply award a higher number of points rather than disqualifying you because, as I have said, a disqualification is discretionary so you need to major less on the crap-happiness of your anal sphincter and more on the loss of your job and its effect on your family. Most courts are happy to give a higher number of points to keep you on the straight and narrow as long as you don't have any significant history of speeding and any spent points will be ignored.
Thanks for your response.HOWEVER,the former relates to an OBLIGATORY disqualification but excess speed is a DISCRETIONARY disqualification so does not really apply as what you would be arguing is that the court should not exercise its DISCRETION.
However, by comparison, for special reasons, a sudden medical emergency can constitute a special reason though that can also arguably be a defence based on "necessity" or "duress of circumstances". In essence what you have to prove is that there was no alternative but for you to drive and that you had explored every other reasonable alternative before driving.
However, be warned, you are unlikely to get much sympathy because the courts hear this excuse all the time and are very unlikely to believe you without some form of medical condition or proof - and that will cost you and I am not convinced that any expert would conclude a digestive condition as described could not be foreseen. What should you have done? You should have gone before you went out.
The flip side is that 101 is not the ultimate speeding offence so the court may simply award a higher number of points rather than disqualifying you because, as I have said, a disqualification is discretionary so you need to major less on the crap-happiness of your anal sphincter and more on the loss of your job and its effect on your family. Most courts are happy to give a higher number of points to keep you on the straight and narrow as long as you don't have any significant history of speeding and any spent points will be ignored.
If and when summoned, I can only but tell the truth, I'd be gutted if they didn't believe me simply because others have tried to use it as an excuse.
I did go to the loo as I always do before leaving work, but when nature calls, nature calls!!! I just don't know what else i could have done. I have consulted my highway code, and visited my local police station to ask the police themselves what I could have done, but nobody has an answer.
Yes, i will plead the case for my job, livelihood and family without saying.
As explained in my first post, I did have some points a few years back, the last of which were in September 2007, and I have driven 150,000-170,000 since then without incident!
Waiting for the dreaded letter to arrive!!!!
Your points expire after 3 years so will have no bearing - only Excess Alcohols stay on your licence for 10 years.
By all means mention the issue but don't labour it because courts have a vast amount of work to get through and don't want to be discussing your motions as they hear enough sh*t as it is. They are far more likely to consider the loss of your job.
Don't go half-ars*d - go with a letter from your employer setting out why you need your car and that you will lose your job if disqualified. If you can complete your job using public transport, for example, the discretion is less likley to go in your favour.
Just saying you will lose your job won't wash because lots of people say that too and it often isn't true either. Other than that, dress smart, don't slouch, speak clearly and succinctly and don't ramble and don't interrupt or protest.
By all means mention the issue but don't labour it because courts have a vast amount of work to get through and don't want to be discussing your motions as they hear enough sh*t as it is. They are far more likely to consider the loss of your job.
Don't go half-ars*d - go with a letter from your employer setting out why you need your car and that you will lose your job if disqualified. If you can complete your job using public transport, for example, the discretion is less likley to go in your favour.
Just saying you will lose your job won't wash because lots of people say that too and it often isn't true either. Other than that, dress smart, don't slouch, speak clearly and succinctly and don't ramble and don't interrupt or protest.
LuS1fer said:
Your points expire after 3 years so will have no bearing - only Excess Alcohols stay on your licence for 10 years.
By all means mention the issue but don't labour it because courts have a vast amount of work to get through and don't want to be discussing your motions as they hear enough sh*t as it is. They are far more likely to consider the loss of your job.
Don't go half-ars*d - go with a letter from your employer setting out why you need your car and that you will lose your job if disqualified. If you can complete your job using public transport, for example, the discretion is less likley to go in your favour.
Just saying you will lose your job won't wash because lots of people say that too and it often isn't true either. Other than that, dress smart, don't slouch, speak clearly and succinctly and don't ramble and don't interrupt or protest.
thanks once again for your response.By all means mention the issue but don't labour it because courts have a vast amount of work to get through and don't want to be discussing your motions as they hear enough sh*t as it is. They are far more likely to consider the loss of your job.
Don't go half-ars*d - go with a letter from your employer setting out why you need your car and that you will lose your job if disqualified. If you can complete your job using public transport, for example, the discretion is less likley to go in your favour.
Just saying you will lose your job won't wash because lots of people say that too and it often isn't true either. Other than that, dress smart, don't slouch, speak clearly and succinctly and don't ramble and don't interrupt or protest.
i haven't discussed it with my employers yet. only the lady that forwards 'bad news' on has forwarded on the memo. i will discuss with bosses once i have received the official letter from the police. i guess then we will get HR involved to get me a letter or even representation, if not, i will go t alone with my letter from work.
i wonder what the odds are on just getting points and a fine are through the post? even if i do, i will still go and contest it, because this was something that i could ot help.
but you are right, i will play more on the job and family aspect, which is also true.
its really frustrating when you have petty criminals who are always getting done for stealing and other minor crimes who go through a form filling exercise and are free to roam the streets again, whereas someone like myself does an honest days work in order to provide for my family, not leaching from the state, and something like this happens, it potentially could cost me money, my job, livelihood and the pain to my personal circumstances!!!!
Can't help on the legalities, but faced with the choice of
(a) doing a ton-up and risking a job-threatening ban
(b) risking a bit of a ticking off for pulling up on the HS (hazards on, hop over barrier, squat behind bush, drop lunch and dignity, job done)
I can't help thinking I'd have gone with (b).
(a) doing a ton-up and risking a job-threatening ban
(b) risking a bit of a ticking off for pulling up on the HS (hazards on, hop over barrier, squat behind bush, drop lunch and dignity, job done)
I can't help thinking I'd have gone with (b).
CommanderJameson said:
Can't help on the legalities, but faced with the choice of
(a) doing a ton-up and risking a job-threatening ban
(b) risking a bit of a ticking off for pulling up on the HS (hazards on, hop over barrier, squat behind bush, drop lunch and dignity, job done)
I can't help thinking I'd have gone with (b).
thanks for this(a) doing a ton-up and risking a job-threatening ban
(b) risking a bit of a ticking off for pulling up on the HS (hazards on, hop over barrier, squat behind bush, drop lunch and dignity, job done)
I can't help thinking I'd have gone with (b).
Just so you are aware, I know of two people who have been to court for ton-up stuff and walked away with 6 points. Often, they will bump in the fine instead. However, as stated the golden rule is facts, facts, facts, don't waste their time and don't irritate them. Imagine it's you sitting there with a big list you have to get through. the more thorough you are, the more they will warm to you and the less you tell them about your "Tom Tit", the better.
I assume you've been done by either a camera van on one of the bridges, or by one of the variable limit cameras (if they were in use).
It's not going to help your 'mitigation' if you decided during your toilet emergency to drive right past Corley services and carry on home - although I suppose your problem may have cured itself by the time you were at Corley, and thus you carried on at a safe speed to home.
It's not going to help your 'mitigation' if you decided during your toilet emergency to drive right past Corley services and carry on home - although I suppose your problem may have cured itself by the time you were at Corley, and thus you carried on at a safe speed to home.
mmm-five said:
I assume you've been done by either a camera van on one of the bridges, or by one of the variable limit cameras (if they were in use).
It's not going to help your 'mitigation' if you decided during your toilet emergency to drive right past Corley services and carry on home - although I suppose your problem may have cured itself by the time you were at Corley, and thus you carried on at a safe speed to home.
the pain and feeling the need to go right there and then did subside. i wasn't doing 101mph all the way, only at the time i was really feeling it. once it had subsided, i did slow down, and could wait until i got home, which is 5 minutes from corley services.It's not going to help your 'mitigation' if you decided during your toilet emergency to drive right past Corley services and carry on home - although I suppose your problem may have cured itself by the time you were at Corley, and thus you carried on at a safe speed to home.
for those of you who have had to go to court, did you represent yourself or go in with a lawyer?
Regardless of the veracity of your claims about 'dropping the kids off at the pool' I think what you can ascertain from the replies you've had is that it doesn't *sound* believable - so even if it is true, you're going to need some sort of evidence to support it. Unless you've got a verified time-stamped video of you legging it from the car to the throne room and audio of some sort of thunderous evacuation, I doubt you'll be able to make it believable.
Go with the job/career/family line - if you're covering the mileages you say then is sounds like you need a car for work so you will hopefully be ok.
For reference 90mph cost me 3 points, £60 and ten minutes listening to a policeman while sat in a Volvo.
Doing 100mph instead of 90 would save you less than 2 minutes over the full length of the M6 toll. If two minutes were critical, I'd have found the most overgrown looking bit of hard shoulder.
Good luck.
Go with the job/career/family line - if you're covering the mileages you say then is sounds like you need a car for work so you will hopefully be ok.
For reference 90mph cost me 3 points, £60 and ten minutes listening to a policeman while sat in a Volvo.
Doing 100mph instead of 90 would save you less than 2 minutes over the full length of the M6 toll. If two minutes were critical, I'd have found the most overgrown looking bit of hard shoulder.
Good luck.
I got caught doing 100 and walked away with a 1 week ban, a few hundred quid fine and no points.
This was quite a few years ago though.
In court I just admitted that I was speeding. I gave no excuse because there was none. The road was clear, I just kept accelerating. They call it speed creep I think.
I wore a suit and spoke politely.
What should you have done?
Clench your butt cheeks till you get home.
If you really had no choice, pull over and taken a dump on a safe area of the hard shoulder.
101mph is possibly going to get you a driving dangerously ticket too.
With that in mind, is needing a dump really a good excuse for driving dangerously.
This was quite a few years ago though.
In court I just admitted that I was speeding. I gave no excuse because there was none. The road was clear, I just kept accelerating. They call it speed creep I think.
I wore a suit and spoke politely.
What should you have done?
Clench your butt cheeks till you get home.
If you really had no choice, pull over and taken a dump on a safe area of the hard shoulder.
101mph is possibly going to get you a driving dangerously ticket too.
With that in mind, is needing a dump really a good excuse for driving dangerously.
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