Advice needed regarding faults on new car
Discussion
Following up from this thread: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Details:
I bought a brand new car just over two weeks ago, upon driving it I immediately noticed that it pulled to the left quite a bit. I have been trying to get it sorted since then and they booked the car in today, a technician came out on a test drive and agreed that it did pull. They had the car for 7 hours and have checked it on the four-wheel alignment machine, which came back showing the car was within manufacturers spec but they further altered it to try and get it right.
I have just been out on a test drive with the manager and it is exactly the same, pulling quite badly (in my opinion) at higher speeds, and they are now taking the car in all day tomorrow. They have given me the usual "camber of the road" spiel, which I completely disagree with, but they do (reluctantly) admit that it isn't right. I have also been given the excuse "electronic steering tends to do this", although I traded in a new shape Fiesta for this car, which also had electronic steering but tracked absolutely perfectly. I get the feeling I'm being seen as one of those problem customers who complains at the slightest rattle or knock, but that isn't the case, this seems like a pretty big issue to me.
So, the worksheet from the wheel alignment shows all settings to be within the green zone, now they want to attempt to put the settings out on purpose (into the red) to straighten it.
I am giving them a fair chance to rectify it but I am quite pissed off about it, and as I've never been in the situation of having faults on a new car before, I'm just wondering what you would advise? Do you think it's acceptable to be putting alignment settings into the 'red' in order for a car to track straight? They have apparently checked the chassis and it is all straight.
Thanks
Short version for sufferers of ADHD:
Details:
I bought a brand new car just over two weeks ago, upon driving it I immediately noticed that it pulled to the left quite a bit. I have been trying to get it sorted since then and they booked the car in today, a technician came out on a test drive and agreed that it did pull. They had the car for 7 hours and have checked it on the four-wheel alignment machine, which came back showing the car was within manufacturers spec but they further altered it to try and get it right.
I have just been out on a test drive with the manager and it is exactly the same, pulling quite badly (in my opinion) at higher speeds, and they are now taking the car in all day tomorrow. They have given me the usual "camber of the road" spiel, which I completely disagree with, but they do (reluctantly) admit that it isn't right. I have also been given the excuse "electronic steering tends to do this", although I traded in a new shape Fiesta for this car, which also had electronic steering but tracked absolutely perfectly. I get the feeling I'm being seen as one of those problem customers who complains at the slightest rattle or knock, but that isn't the case, this seems like a pretty big issue to me.
So, the worksheet from the wheel alignment shows all settings to be within the green zone, now they want to attempt to put the settings out on purpose (into the red) to straighten it.
I am giving them a fair chance to rectify it but I am quite pissed off about it, and as I've never been in the situation of having faults on a new car before, I'm just wondering what you would advise? Do you think it's acceptable to be putting alignment settings into the 'red' in order for a car to track straight? They have apparently checked the chassis and it is all straight.
Thanks
Short version for sufferers of ADHD:
- Bought new car, pulls to the left.
- Alignment check shows that everything is within spec and chassis is straight.
- Car is about to have its second full day in the garage. Staff have given me many excuses.
- Wut do?
Edited by PumpkinSteve on Thursday 31st May 17:43
Look into "tyre conicity". Swapping the front wheels over then the car pulling to the right would show this in action (if it is the problem). ALternatively, swapping the nearside wheels front to rear and (hopefully) noting a reduction in the "pull to the left" would be another simple check (NB if the car has "directional" tyres this will be the only legal one of the two checks suggested that you can do on your driveway tonight...).
No guarantees this will fix it; it's just the first thing I thought of .
I have grave doubts that your garage knows what it is doing... Setting the geometry "in the red" will just wear your tyres out quicker plus almost certainly alter the tyre wear/handling compromise adversely
.
No guarantees this will fix it; it's just the first thing I thought of
.I have grave doubts that your garage knows what it is doing... Setting the geometry "in the red" will just wear your tyres out quicker plus almost certainly alter the tyre wear/handling compromise adversely
.sonarbell said:
My Insignia has pulled very slightly to the left since new. ( 1 year old ). No point complaining as I know they will never rectify it..
Doesn't it annoy you? I know it isn't the fault of the garage but I find it unacceptable, and I find their excuses extremely patronising (i.e. roads aren't quite straight). My steering wheel always reverts to about 5-10 degrees angle when let go of, it's not right at all.Red 4 said:
Give the car a very, very thorough going over
Transit damage ?
Much more common than you would think
Take somebody with you who knows what they are looking for (no offence intended).
Which part/s would be a likely culprit? Do you think if they spotted something today when examining the chassis they'd tell me about it, or just hide it?Transit damage ?
Much more common than you would think
Take somebody with you who knows what they are looking for (no offence intended).
aw51 121565 said:
Look into "tyre conicity". Swapping the front wheels over then the car pulling to the right would show this in action (if it is the problem). ALternatively, swapping the nearside wheels front to rear and (hopefully) noting a reduction in the "pull to the left" would be another simple check (NB if the car has "directional" tyres this will be the only legal one of the two checks suggested that you can do on your driveway tonight...).
No guarantees this will fix it; it's just the first thing I thought of .
I have grave doubts that your garage knows what it is doing... Setting the geometry "in the red" will just wear your tyres out quicker plus almost certainly alter the tyre wear/handling compromise adversely .
This.No guarantees this will fix it; it's just the first thing I thought of
.I have grave doubts that your garage knows what it is doing... Setting the geometry "in the red" will just wear your tyres out quicker plus almost certainly alter the tyre wear/handling compromise adversely
.It happend on my car after two new tyres were fitted. Putting them on the back pretty much cured the problem.
PumpkinSteve said:
Red 4 said:
Give the car a very, very thorough going over
Transit damage ?
Much more common than you would think
Take somebody with you who knows what they are looking for (no offence intended).
Which part/s would be a likely culprit? Do you think if they spotted something today when examining the chassis they'd tell me about it, or just hide it?Transit damage ?
Much more common than you would think
Take somebody with you who knows what they are looking for (no offence intended).
But cars do get damaged regularly before they are delivered to their first owner
In your case it could (I stress COULD) be any number of components. Hopefully it will just be something simple as mentioned; ie tyres
I'd still take someone with you though who knows cars and have a good poke around whilst it's up on the ramps. Also have a good look around for any signs of body repairs. Never assume any new car will be as it left the factory.
Do I think the dealer would tell you if the car had been repaired ? Depends on the dealer but a dealer tried to sell me a "new" car a few months ago. A demo with 150 miles on the clock with a full nearside respray (wing, door, quarter). He initially denied all knowledge of the repairs but it was fairly obvious (to me). Cost him £50 for my fuel to collect the car and obviously there was no sale.
Best of luck fella, I hope it's something simple.
It might sound stupid, but I could all be down to the tyres that are fitted.
A lot of tyres for the UK are actually tyres for Europe - in LHD markets, cars drive on the right (obviously!!) so the camber falls the opposite way to UK roads.
Tyre manufacturers tend to manufacture the tyre carcas with a built in bias to make the tyre pull slightly to the left to counteract camber pull, to the right - put a tyre that is designed this way on a car driving on the left (like UK roads) and you end up with both the road camber and the tyre trying to pull the car left
When you go back to the dealer tomorrow, ask them to fit wheels and tyres from another similar spec'd car, but with tyres of a different brand, then go out on a road test
If it is down to tyre construction, it should minimise the pull to the left.
It's also worth finding a quiet road with even cambers that form a crown in the middle - when driving on the left hand side of the road, you will probably get a light drift to the left (camber pull), when driving on the wrong side of the road (hence finding a quiet road) it should produce a light drift to the right. Driving in the middle of the road so that the effects of road camber are balanced evenly, the car should drive pretty much straight with little pull to any one side
ETA: wheel alignment figures that in the words of your dealer are 'all in the green' aren't necessarily right - they should be exactly to the manufacturers spec, be balanced perfectly on both sides of the car, and if the car is set-up correctly you should have 0 degrees of offset
A lot of tyres for the UK are actually tyres for Europe - in LHD markets, cars drive on the right (obviously!!) so the camber falls the opposite way to UK roads.
Tyre manufacturers tend to manufacture the tyre carcas with a built in bias to make the tyre pull slightly to the left to counteract camber pull, to the right - put a tyre that is designed this way on a car driving on the left (like UK roads) and you end up with both the road camber and the tyre trying to pull the car left
When you go back to the dealer tomorrow, ask them to fit wheels and tyres from another similar spec'd car, but with tyres of a different brand, then go out on a road test
If it is down to tyre construction, it should minimise the pull to the left.
It's also worth finding a quiet road with even cambers that form a crown in the middle - when driving on the left hand side of the road, you will probably get a light drift to the left (camber pull), when driving on the wrong side of the road (hence finding a quiet road) it should produce a light drift to the right. Driving in the middle of the road so that the effects of road camber are balanced evenly, the car should drive pretty much straight with little pull to any one side
ETA: wheel alignment figures that in the words of your dealer are 'all in the green' aren't necessarily right - they should be exactly to the manufacturers spec, be balanced perfectly on both sides of the car, and if the car is set-up correctly you should have 0 degrees of offset
Edited by Superhoop on Thursday 31st May 19:49
Could also be a binding brake or something not rotating freely on the left side? The camber of most roads will gradually pull a car to the left for safety reasons, but find a flat road close by and let go of the wheel and see if it still pulls left? There may be nowt wrong with the alignment. If they can be bothered take the front wheels off another car and try them?
We tried driving in the middle of the road on a brand new, flat road and it still pulled the same. I have a spare wheel so I'm going to try the spare on both sides at the front and/ or swap the original wheels over to see if it changes anything. I really hope it turns out to be the tyres, I'm tired of the hassle already.
Thanks for the replies so far
Thanks for the replies so far
I have exactly the same problem. Bought a Mazda 3 in Feb. Pulls ever so slightly to the left on any surface. Steering wheel slightly out of line. Mazda deny every aspect of it. Went out for test run with engineer - it pulled to the left every time he let go of the wheel. He denied it and told me I'd have to speak to the manager, who denied it. I have given up. Just have to get on with it. Luckily its not that bad.
What annoys me most is the stupid f
king reasons they try to convince you of (camber etc) - like its the first fking car I have ever driven or something.
Good luck.
What annoys me most is the stupid f
king reasons they try to convince you of (camber etc) - like its the first fking car I have ever driven or something. Good luck.
Edited by peterbredde on Thursday 31st May 19:54
mondeoman said:
get the alignment checked somewhere else and send them the bill
If its not tyres then do the above & find your local alignment specialist from herehttp://www.alignmycar.co.uk/
All that jazz said:
More info needed... What were the make and model of tyres and which ones have been swapped where?
They are Hankook, I *think* they are Eco K425, not sure about that though and can't check at the moment as the car isn't kept at my house. I swapped the front tyres around, left to right and vice-versa and then took it out for a couple of miles on fast roads. My Brother came with me as he had seen what it was like yesterday and he agrees that it is okay now. Someone in my other thread (link at the top) said they had the exact same experience with a new VW Polo, which is the car I have, and they said it was resolved by swapping the tyres after an alignment check had come back fine. Maybe the tyres are purposely made to do that in case the driver falls asleep or something?
I have it booked in at the dealership at 8:00, so I'm wondering if I should just phone to cancel or take the car down and ask why it took them 7 hours and they didn't even check the tyres. Maybe I can get a free service
PumpkinSteve said:
They are Hankook, I *think* they are Eco K425, not sure about that though and can't check at the moment as the car isn't kept at my house. I swapped the front tyres around, left to right and vice-versa and then took it out for a couple of miles on fast roads. My Brother came with me as he had seen what it was like yesterday and he agrees that it is okay now.
Someone in my other thread (link at the top) said they had the exact same experience with a new VW Polo, which is the car I have, and they said it was resolved by swapping the tyres after an alignment check had come back fine. Maybe the tyres are purposely made to do that in case the driver falls asleep or something?
I have it booked in at the dealership at 8:00, so I'm wondering if I should just phone to cancel or take the car down and ask why it took them 7 hours and they didn't even check the tyres. Maybe I can get a free service
Interesting. Looking at pics of them online they are asymmetrical tyres so I guess then that yours were fitted on the wrong sides. There will be a marking on them showing which side they must be fitted on.Someone in my other thread (link at the top) said they had the exact same experience with a new VW Polo, which is the car I have, and they said it was resolved by swapping the tyres after an alignment check had come back fine. Maybe the tyres are purposely made to do that in case the driver falls asleep or something?
I have it booked in at the dealership at 8:00, so I'm wondering if I should just phone to cancel or take the car down and ask why it took them 7 hours and they didn't even check the tyres. Maybe I can get a free service
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