Diesel fumes cause cancer.

[Morningside]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18415532

What now? Higher tax? better filters? End of diesel as a road car?

[odyssey2200]

Morningside said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18415532

What now? Higher tax? better filters? End of diesel as a road car?

ban buses from city centres?

[Big Rod]

Legislate that 'something' expensive needs to be built into the exhaust pipe to cut out the dangerous component then levy a tax on the output of whatever the component turns the carcinogen into.

Nah, it'll never happen.

[TheEnd]

I thought that was well known, and why particulate filters were about.

[GroundEffect]

WHAT part of the exhaust? They can't just say 'diesel exhaust' as loads of the stuff that's ejected from diesel exhaust also comes out of petrol exhausts.

[Changedmyname]

I knew it, ever sat behind a lorry/bus/coach on the motorway on a hot summers day
bumper to bumper belching out their cancerous fumes?

[martin84]

Banning buses from towns and cities would do a lot more for air quality than the anti-car measures they'll likely implement.

[checkmate91]

GroundEffect said:

WHAT part of the exhaust? They can't just say 'diesel exhaust' as loads of the stuff that's ejected from diesel exhaust also comes out of petrol exhausts.

I believe it's the particulates (soot) that cause the problem. The soot is so fine that it gets deep into the lining of the lungs and can't be ejected with the normal cleansing action of the respiratory system.

[GroundEffect]

checkmate91 said:

GroundEffect said:

WHAT part of the exhaust? They can't just say 'diesel exhaust' as loads of the stuff that's ejected from diesel exhaust also comes out of petrol exhausts.

I believe it's the particulates (soot) that cause the problem. The soot is so fine that it gets deep into the lining of the lungs and can't be ejected with the normal cleansing action of the respiratory system.

DPFs should fix that, no?

[Ninjaboy]

GroundEffect said:

DPFs should fix that, no?

So they work? i've seen plenty of modern diesels rolling coal

[GroundEffect]

Ninjaboy said:

GroundEffect said:

DPFs should fix that, no?

So they work? i've seen plenty of modern diesels rolling coal

The Euro 5 emissions don't allow any visible soot. Either they were pre-2011 Euro 4 engines or broken

[Mr GrimNasty]

So do petrol fumes, burnt and at the pump. And just about every derivative of the petrochemical industry out there, including your plastic lunch box. Old non-news. Move along.

[Matthen]

Double post: http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t...

[Fastdruid]

GroundEffect said:

Ninjaboy said:

GroundEffect said:

DPFs should fix that, no?

So they work? i've seen plenty of modern diesels rolling coal

The Euro 5 emissions don't allow any visible soot. Either they were pre-2011 Euro 4 engines or remapped

FTFY.

[djfaulkner]

[redacted]

[chryslerben]

[redacted]

[aw51 121565]

checkmate91 said:

GroundEffect said:

WHAT part of the exhaust? They can't just say 'diesel exhaust' as loads of the stuff that's ejected from diesel exhaust also comes out of petrol exhausts.

I believe it's the particulates (soot) that cause the problem. The soot is so fine that it gets deep into the lining of the lungs and can't be ejected with the normal cleansing action of the respiratory system.

Diesels emit PM10s - particles sized around 10microns, seen as "Diesel smoke" - from their exhaust pipes. These get 'caught' quite high up in the respiratory tract, and are fairly-easily ejected by natural means - but admittedly they are (diplomatically ) often quite nasty chemically .

Petrol engines emit smaller particles (PM5s and PM1s - particles measuring 5 microns and 1 micron in diameter - from memory) - hence why you can't see much (or any, if the particles are PM1s or smaller...) "black smoke" coming from their exhaust pipes - but the smaller the particle, the further 'down' the respiratory tract it can get and the harder it is to excrete . Plus there are more 'other' chemical carcinogens (as unburnt hydrocarbons) like Benzene in the mix that are absent from the PM10s & Diesel 'fumes' as well.

This report is like travelling back in time to QUARG 1994 (google it), where Diesels got a serious bashing despite their significant NOx, CO & CO2 emission advantages over catalysed petrol engines with the same performance but significantly better economy (their only disadvantages was PM10s - has much changed today?)...

Obviously a "bad news" day, as the floods affecting a small part of the UK aren't enough to hide the release of other unacceptable government nonsense/laws/policies - meanwhile we are meant to focus on this "Diesel exhausts are carcinogenic" press release ?

Diesel and Petrol engines are like apples and oranges; both have their benefits. If one could 'see' the harmful emissions from Petrol engines - as one can from Diesel exhausts - one would have grave doubts about them too...

I utterly despair - this is 20 year old chip wrapping government propoganda with no significant implications for us - I really do ... GAH!!!

[heebeegeetee]

TheEnd said:

I thought that was well known, and why particulate filters were about.

No, it isn't well known. Previous statements have been based on nonsense. This latest 'finding' which is the very first time ever that the statement 'diesel fumes causes cancer' has been able to be made as a definite statement, still seems to only apply to high risk workers, such as mine workers where diesel engined vehicles are used inside the mines.

The fact that petrol engines would kill them all within minutes can be ignored, I guess.

None of us going about our normal business are high risk workers though, but I think that will be ignored by relevant bodies and we can brace ourselves for extra taxing.

[heebeegeetee]

aw51 121565 said:

I utterly despair - this is 20 year old chip wrapping government propoganda with no significant implications for us - I really do ... GAH!!!

In fairness, this seems to have come from the WHO, who have had some 90 years to suddenly decide that diesel fumes definitely cause cancer.

The WHO has also long been quoted as saying that benzene has no known safe limit of use, and yet benzene is added to fuel to make up for the loss of lead (TEL), which was another extremely harmful chemical which had to be added to petrol to get it to work in internal combustion engines.

[otolith]

The WHO subscribes to the doctrine that there is no safe level of exposure to any carcinogen - which includes diesel smoke as well as benzene. What they mean is that there is no level of exposure posing zero risk - the risk increases steadily with increasing exposure, it doesn't suddenly appear at a given level.