Rounabout signalling, so many variations!
Discussion
OK, up goes the head over the parapet, but this is my slant on things, following a comment in another thread recently
Yesterday i had a car behind me still indicating right as he followed me off the roundabout, i was indicating left. This got me thinking
A Roundabout, in its simplest form, is a one way street with exit roads only on the left * see later
The rules are give way to traffic already on the roundabout
Hopefully i can tell what exit 90% of drivers are going to take by the intial positioning on approaching the roundabout.
I was taught to that when exiting a roundabout to indicate my intentions immeadiately after passing the exit prior to the one i wanted (this back in 1964!! was the reason. It would alert any driver wishing to enter the roundabout from the exit i was taking that he could, if he wished, enter. good point i thought.
So ever since then i have used that premise, by if wanting first exit indicating left on approach and keeping indicator on. All other exits position car and no indicators until i pass the prior exit, then left.
This analogy was put forward to me as follows * see above comment
You are approaching a T junction from the bottom of the T, the cross piece is one way right to left. Do you a)indicate right on approaching the junction,or b) not at all as you can only go one way, and once on the one way road, which only has exits on the left ,do you indicate right going down that street and then change your indicator to turn left? then the same would apply at a roundabout.It also follows that you would only indicate left on exiting, or as soon as practicable. At the roundabout nearest me it is a 5 exit rounabout with exits at 6,9,12,3 and 4.30? I am at the 4.30 entrance and the amount of drivers i see indiating left after passing the 3 o'clock exit and carrying on to the 6 position, others indicating right all the way round and no left turn given.
Given that you have priority on the roundabout ( see threads passim on joining motorways etc) is a right turn signal really necessary?
Dont get me started on idiots who do not understand lane discipline on roundabouts, surely the same principle applies as on a dual carriageway, Who is in the wrong if someone deviates from the left/right hand lane into your lane irrespective of whether they are indicating?
Just some thoughts,and apologies if it is a bit rambling. I dont think there is a right or wrong way, but if we could all do it the same way............
Yesterday i had a car behind me still indicating right as he followed me off the roundabout, i was indicating left. This got me thinking
A Roundabout, in its simplest form, is a one way street with exit roads only on the left * see later
The rules are give way to traffic already on the roundabout
Hopefully i can tell what exit 90% of drivers are going to take by the intial positioning on approaching the roundabout.
I was taught to that when exiting a roundabout to indicate my intentions immeadiately after passing the exit prior to the one i wanted (this back in 1964!! was the reason. It would alert any driver wishing to enter the roundabout from the exit i was taking that he could, if he wished, enter. good point i thought.
So ever since then i have used that premise, by if wanting first exit indicating left on approach and keeping indicator on. All other exits position car and no indicators until i pass the prior exit, then left.
This analogy was put forward to me as follows * see above comment
You are approaching a T junction from the bottom of the T, the cross piece is one way right to left. Do you a)indicate right on approaching the junction,or b) not at all as you can only go one way, and once on the one way road, which only has exits on the left ,do you indicate right going down that street and then change your indicator to turn left? then the same would apply at a roundabout.It also follows that you would only indicate left on exiting, or as soon as practicable. At the roundabout nearest me it is a 5 exit rounabout with exits at 6,9,12,3 and 4.30? I am at the 4.30 entrance and the amount of drivers i see indiating left after passing the 3 o'clock exit and carrying on to the 6 position, others indicating right all the way round and no left turn given.
Given that you have priority on the roundabout ( see threads passim on joining motorways etc) is a right turn signal really necessary?
Dont get me started on idiots who do not understand lane discipline on roundabouts, surely the same principle applies as on a dual carriageway, Who is in the wrong if someone deviates from the left/right hand lane into your lane irrespective of whether they are indicating?
Just some thoughts,and apologies if it is a bit rambling. I dont think there is a right or wrong way, but if we could all do it the same way............
Ekona said:
According to my research, it seems that I am the only person in the world capable of using roundabouts properly. I indicate at the right times, get in the right lanes and stay in them too. I'm sure there's others like me out there, I just haven't come across them yet.
It's very hard to notice good driving as it doesn't make you angry, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.IF you treat it as a one way street with exits on the left, that's true. But it's not, is it? It's a roundabout.
If I am taking the fourth of five exits, I'll indicate right until in line with the 3rd (thus confirming to all waiting at 1st - 3rd that they can't pull out) and then left (thus indicating to anyone waiting at 4th that they can).
It is actually quite dangerous IMO for people to do as you are advocating, i.e. go 270 degrees round a roundabout without indicating. I'm opposite your entry point - Can I go? No... Yes... OK... Ohs
tno, he's coming round. Gee, thanks for that, chap.
The other thing that bakes my noodle about roundabouts is that someone in town planning seems to think every single roundabout is a blank canvas to reinterpret how these fundamental bits of road infrastructure work. Thus, some have left lane for straight ahead, others have right lane for straight ahead, some have traffic lights, some have roads going through the middle, some have painted guidelines showing two lanes leaving for a two-lane exit road, some have only one lane of the roundabout leaving into a two lane road.
And this I'm afraid, OP, is why I CAN'T judge from your road positioning exactly what's going on in your head in terms of exits. Which is why, if you're going past 12 o'clock on the roundabout, I'd really appreciate it if you'd do me the favour of indicating.
If I am taking the fourth of five exits, I'll indicate right until in line with the 3rd (thus confirming to all waiting at 1st - 3rd that they can't pull out) and then left (thus indicating to anyone waiting at 4th that they can).
It is actually quite dangerous IMO for people to do as you are advocating, i.e. go 270 degrees round a roundabout without indicating. I'm opposite your entry point - Can I go? No... Yes... OK... Ohs
tno, he's coming round. Gee, thanks for that, chap.The other thing that bakes my noodle about roundabouts is that someone in town planning seems to think every single roundabout is a blank canvas to reinterpret how these fundamental bits of road infrastructure work. Thus, some have left lane for straight ahead, others have right lane for straight ahead, some have traffic lights, some have roads going through the middle, some have painted guidelines showing two lanes leaving for a two-lane exit road, some have only one lane of the roundabout leaving into a two lane road.
And this I'm afraid, OP, is why I CAN'T judge from your road positioning exactly what's going on in your head in terms of exits. Which is why, if you're going past 12 o'clock on the roundabout, I'd really appreciate it if you'd do me the favour of indicating.
I too have argued in the past that the roundabout is a one way street with left turn exits only and that it just happens to be a curved one-way street. Following that logic then the only signals required are to the left. Like you, I was taught in the sixties before there was even a formal priority system on roundabouts and certainly no 'mini-roundabouts', so I accept that this wisdom may be obsolete. Custom and practice suggests that to indicate right if you are heading for any exit past the second helps intending joiners. The signal at the exit prior to your chosen exit still holds. Never, ever, indicate right on approach if you are leaving at exits one or two. Some roundabouts are single lane and it is hard to deduce from road positioning which exit a driver is aiming for - hence the 'new' right indicator practice. What really matters is that everyone follows the same procedure, and not really what that procedure is - within reason at least.
Oh yes, and what REALLY annoys me is the modern habit of local authorities placing screens to prevent sight of vehicles already circulating and those entering from a road to your right. It forces you to stop and look rather than encouraging anticipation and speed adjustment thereby allowing smooth movement of traffic. Grrrr!
Oh yes, and what REALLY annoys me is the modern habit of local authorities placing screens to prevent sight of vehicles already circulating and those entering from a road to your right. It forces you to stop and look rather than encouraging anticipation and speed adjustment thereby allowing smooth movement of traffic. Grrrr!
Edited by motco on Thursday 14th June 18:30
I was taught to signal at roundabouts in a very similar fashion, with a small exception.
This method assumes a roundabout with four exits in total, it isn't rocket science to modify it for different configurations.
Approach the roundabout as if it wasn't there (bear with me) and on the approach:-
If turning left (taking the first exit), indicate left.
If travelling straight on (taking the second exit), do not indicate.
If turning right (taking the third exit), indicate right.
Then:-
If taking the first exit, turn off.
If taking the second exit, signal left as you pass the first exit.
If taking the third exit, cancel indicator after passing the first exit and signal left after passing the second exit.
This leaves no doubt as to your intention!
I must say that I believe that, for the most part, the use of roundabouts has changed dramatically since I passed my test. Originally they were designed so that traffic would only need to slow down and filter into the traffic on the roundabout and straight out of the exit.
Unfortunately, because of the incredible increase in traffic levels, and an equally incredible decrease in the levels of courtesy and tolerance on our roads, roundabouts no longer work as intended. This is why so many now have traffic lights to control the traffic flow.
This method assumes a roundabout with four exits in total, it isn't rocket science to modify it for different configurations.
Approach the roundabout as if it wasn't there (bear with me) and on the approach:-
If turning left (taking the first exit), indicate left.
If travelling straight on (taking the second exit), do not indicate.
If turning right (taking the third exit), indicate right.
Then:-
If taking the first exit, turn off.
If taking the second exit, signal left as you pass the first exit.
If taking the third exit, cancel indicator after passing the first exit and signal left after passing the second exit.
This leaves no doubt as to your intention!
I must say that I believe that, for the most part, the use of roundabouts has changed dramatically since I passed my test. Originally they were designed so that traffic would only need to slow down and filter into the traffic on the roundabout and straight out of the exit.
Unfortunately, because of the incredible increase in traffic levels, and an equally incredible decrease in the levels of courtesy and tolerance on our roads, roundabouts no longer work as intended. This is why so many now have traffic lights to control the traffic flow.
Captain Muppet said:
If I learnt to drive 50 years ago I'd have a good hard think about whether a little read of the latest highway code wouldn't be worth half an hour of my time.
What makes you think it has remained unread? This is a discussion about best practice, common practice and safety, not merely passing your test. I for one have not only got and read the current HC but various other government manuals on driving including 'Roadcraft'. Obviously I cannot vouch for any other longer standing drivers. motco said:
Custom and practice suggests that to indicate right if you are heading for any exit past the second helps intending joiners. The signal at the exit prior to your chosen exit still holds. Never, ever, indicate right on approach if you are leaving at exits one or two.
Why this pre-occupation with the second exit? What if, looking at a clock face, those first two exits are 7:30 and 9:00, would you still indicate right to take the third exit if it was at 10:30?No wonder people are saying roundabouts are no longer "fit for purpose"!
(edit for clarity)
Edited by masermartin on Thursday 14th June 18:58
masermartin said:
IF you treat it as a one way street with exits on the left, that's true. But it's not, is it? It's a roundabout.
If I am taking the fourth of five exits, I'll indicate right until in line with the 3rd (thus confirming to all waiting at 1st - 3rd that they can't pull out) and then left (thus indicating to anyone waiting at 4th that they can).
It is actually quite dangerous IMO for people to do as you are advocating, i.e. go 270 degrees round a roundabout without indicating. I'm opposite your entry point - Can I go? No... Yes... OK... Ohstno, he's coming round. Gee, thanks for that, chap.
The other thing that bakes my noodle about roundabouts is that someone in town planning seems to think every single roundabout is a blank canvas to reinterpret how these fundamental bits of road infrastructure work. Thus, some have left lane for straight ahead, others have right lane for straight ahead, some have traffic lights, some have roads going through the middle, some have painted guidelines showing two lanes leaving for a two-lane exit road, some have only one lane of the roundabout leaving into a two lane road.
And this I'm afraid, OP, is why I CAN'T judge from your road positioning exactly what's going on in your head in terms of exits. Which is why, if you're going past 12 o'clock on the roundabout, I'd really appreciate it if you'd do me the favour of indicating.
I completely agree.If I am taking the fourth of five exits, I'll indicate right until in line with the 3rd (thus confirming to all waiting at 1st - 3rd that they can't pull out) and then left (thus indicating to anyone waiting at 4th that they can).
It is actually quite dangerous IMO for people to do as you are advocating, i.e. go 270 degrees round a roundabout without indicating. I'm opposite your entry point - Can I go? No... Yes... OK... Ohs
tno, he's coming round. Gee, thanks for that, chap.The other thing that bakes my noodle about roundabouts is that someone in town planning seems to think every single roundabout is a blank canvas to reinterpret how these fundamental bits of road infrastructure work. Thus, some have left lane for straight ahead, others have right lane for straight ahead, some have traffic lights, some have roads going through the middle, some have painted guidelines showing two lanes leaving for a two-lane exit road, some have only one lane of the roundabout leaving into a two lane road.
And this I'm afraid, OP, is why I CAN'T judge from your road positioning exactly what's going on in your head in terms of exits. Which is why, if you're going past 12 o'clock on the roundabout, I'd really appreciate it if you'd do me the favour of indicating.
jagracer said:
Highway code in matching-up-with-common-sense shocker. R300will said:
masermartin said:
IF you treat it as a one way street with exits on the left, that's true. But it's not, is it? It's a roundabout.
If I am taking the fourth of five exits, I'll indicate right until in line with the 3rd (thus confirming to all waiting at 1st - 3rd that they can't pull out) and then left (thus indicating to anyone waiting at 4th that they can).
It is actually quite dangerous IMO for people to do as you are advocating, i.e. go 270 degrees round a roundabout without indicating. I'm opposite your entry point - Can I go? No... Yes... OK... Ohstno, he's coming round. Gee, thanks for that, chap.
The other thing that bakes my noodle about roundabouts is that someone in town planning seems to think every single roundabout is a blank canvas to reinterpret how these fundamental bits of road infrastructure work. Thus, some have left lane for straight ahead, others have right lane for straight ahead, some have traffic lights, some have roads going through the middle, some have painted guidelines showing two lanes leaving for a two-lane exit road, some have only one lane of the roundabout leaving into a two lane road.
And this I'm afraid, OP, is why I CAN'T judge from your road positioning exactly what's going on in your head in terms of exits. Which is why, if you're going past 12 o'clock on the roundabout, I'd really appreciate it if you'd do me the favour of indicating.
I completely agree.If I am taking the fourth of five exits, I'll indicate right until in line with the 3rd (thus confirming to all waiting at 1st - 3rd that they can't pull out) and then left (thus indicating to anyone waiting at 4th that they can).
It is actually quite dangerous IMO for people to do as you are advocating, i.e. go 270 degrees round a roundabout without indicating. I'm opposite your entry point - Can I go? No... Yes... OK... Ohs
tno, he's coming round. Gee, thanks for that, chap.The other thing that bakes my noodle about roundabouts is that someone in town planning seems to think every single roundabout is a blank canvas to reinterpret how these fundamental bits of road infrastructure work. Thus, some have left lane for straight ahead, others have right lane for straight ahead, some have traffic lights, some have roads going through the middle, some have painted guidelines showing two lanes leaving for a two-lane exit road, some have only one lane of the roundabout leaving into a two lane road.
And this I'm afraid, OP, is why I CAN'T judge from your road positioning exactly what's going on in your head in terms of exits. Which is why, if you're going past 12 o'clock on the roundabout, I'd really appreciate it if you'd do me the favour of indicating.
masermartin said:
jagracer said:
Highway code in matching-up-with-common-sense shocker. Edited by jagracer on Thursday 14th June 19:06
Simples: just indicate to those who need to know. Never indicate left until after the previous exit, this appears to be a very common downfall & causes most roundabout incidents imho.
Modern roundabout white lining appears to be contrary to previous tuition too & contrary to the highway code! eg many white lines appear to lead directly across the path of the previous lane (eg round the outside) which makes a pulling out more difficulty & the potential for incidents far higher.
Here's what I mean about the white lines
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=bristol&hl=en&...
Modern roundabout white lining appears to be contrary to previous tuition too & contrary to the highway code! eg many white lines appear to lead directly across the path of the previous lane (eg round the outside) which makes a pulling out more difficulty & the potential for incidents far higher.
Here's what I mean about the white lines
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=bristol&hl=en&...
Edited by cptsideways on Thursday 14th June 19:19
Masermatin,
Dont want to start a spat, but what difference does indicating right have over not indicating?, surely in either instance as the car is already on the roundabout you have to give him precedence of progress, or do you just go irrespective?
Personally speaking its the numpties who keep indicating right whilst peeling off the roundabout that do me in. If i am on the damn thing i have right of way end off indicating or not, and will stay on it until i indicate left to exit, although i dont making a habit of circling!!!
However if you know the rather doughnutty roundabout south of windsor on the A308 on the way into Windsor Great Park, years ago(196x) my mate and i were out for a drive and saw two girls,quite fit as well, thumbing a lift. We were in the inside so couldnt pull over, so did a circuit, missed them again and then went round a third time!, However the local plod had woken up and flagged me over
With his head through the window he just said, Congratu;lations, a new lap record. now what are you playing at?
Just told him the situation, and expected a bking, but what he did next just fazed me.
'OK i'll hold the traffic while you get across to them' AND he did. See that happening now?
Dont want to start a spat, but what difference does indicating right have over not indicating?, surely in either instance as the car is already on the roundabout you have to give him precedence of progress, or do you just go irrespective?
Personally speaking its the numpties who keep indicating right whilst peeling off the roundabout that do me in. If i am on the damn thing i have right of way end off indicating or not, and will stay on it until i indicate left to exit, although i dont making a habit of circling!!!
However if you know the rather doughnutty roundabout south of windsor on the A308 on the way into Windsor Great Park, years ago(196x) my mate and i were out for a drive and saw two girls,quite fit as well, thumbing a lift. We were in the inside so couldnt pull over, so did a circuit, missed them again and then went round a third time!, However the local plod had woken up and flagged me over
With his head through the window he just said, Congratu;lations, a new lap record. now what are you playing at?
Just told him the situation, and expected a b
king, but what he did next just fazed me.'OK i'll hold the traffic while you get across to them' AND he did. See that happening now?
HWC said:
188
Mini-roundabouts. Approach these in the same way as normal roundabouts. All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so. Remember, there is less space to manoeuvre and less time to signal. Avoid making U-turns at mini-roundabouts. Beware of others doing this.
This catches people out a lot!Mini-roundabouts. Approach these in the same way as normal roundabouts. All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so. Remember, there is less space to manoeuvre and less time to signal. Avoid making U-turns at mini-roundabouts. Beware of others doing this.
This is how it's done. With more exits the same principle of indicating right until you pass the exit before the exit you wish to take, then indicating left applies.
Public information film - Indicating at roundabouts - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4eYAFL6dwA
Public information film - Indicating at roundabouts - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4eYAFL6dwA
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