Moving to Europe and need advice on a new car.

[DRVR]

Hi there! Greetings from a fellow car-lover.

I will be moving to Europe soon and I would like to buy a car. But I don't want just any car. I'm an enthusiast, a petro-head, a gear-head or whichever is the appropriated term around here.
So I think I need some help on the matter.

I would something which not only looks good but it's fun to drive. Easy enough right? But here's the thing. I'm on a budget.
At least for the first one. Later on as I settle I may get something more expensive. But for now it needs to be relatively inexpensive.

The pre-requisites are rear-wheel drive, manual transmission, which I think in Europe is not a problem and it needs to be a coupe or 2-door. It doesn't have to be a sports-car. I actually prefer a GT or 2+2 sports-coupe but would consider a normal 2-door car. It would be also great if it had something bigger than just a 4-cyl. like a V6 for example.

The only thing I'm trying to avoid are Mercedes ad BMWs. Not a big fan of the German cars for some reason and specially not the older ones, which is what I would have to get with my budget. I'm also not a terribly big fan of Japanese or Korean cars but would consider it. Just nothing like a MR2 or Miata. Not practical enough for a daily drive and I feel too old to ride around in those.

In terms of budget, I don't really have a solid number. I just wanted to spend as little as possible. So something not too above 3,000-4,000 Euros/2,500-3,300 pounds. I wouldn't mind if the body needed a re-spraying. I could do that myself. As long as the interior is clean and the mechanic part ok.

Am I dreaming here? Or is it possible to get something like that for this kind of money or not too much more? I also have the feeling cars are much cheaper in the UK than on mainland Europe. Is that really the case? The same cars that are affordable in the UK go for insanely higher prices in other European sites.

I took a look online but the problem is the RWD. If I would go for FWD there seems to be a lot of options. Like an Alfa GTV V6, which I heard drives and sounds great and also looks great. But I don't know all the older European cars so I'm not sure if there's anything with RWD and affordable out there. I would also consider AWD if it was the only option to save me from FWD.

I would appreciate any tips and advice from local guys that could stir me in the right direction.

Thanks a lot in advance!

Edited by DRVR on Saturday 23 June 11:47

Edited by DRVR on Saturday 23 June 12:00

[Schuey M]

Vw golf mk4 r32. 3.2v6 and 4wd hot hatch with manual transmission.

Or a maxda rx8

Edited by Schuey M on Saturday 23 June 12:18

[Kolbenkopp]

Difficult one. It's not going to be as cheap as in the UK, that's pretty certain. Knowing the actual country might make advice a bit easier as prices vary a bit. To get "RWD + Coupe - German" I don't think there is anything available here that was not also imported to the UK. You'd really need to look at classics / youngtimers.

But honestly if the running costs and budget matters, you'd be better of adapting your requirements. Lots of BMWs and Mercs around that fit the rest of the criteria.

Just some random suggestions in budget (German prices) ingnoring some of the criteria:

- Mazda RX8 (not sure if buying a cheap one is a good idea, MPG also not that good)
- BMW 323 ti Compact / 323 Ci
- Lexus IS 200 (good value here, lack of "image" makes em cheap)

If you can live with an older car and you look around carfully, you could get a slightly rough transaxle Porsche in budget.

http://www.autoscout24.de/Details.aspx?id=21633932...

Not going to be "concours" at that price tho.

[davepoth]

Cars are indeed cheaper in the UK. Perversely it may be cheaper to buy a LHD car in the UK and then ship it across.

[McHaggis]

Second hand car market seems very different in Europe.

Countries vary hugely... where are you going?

As above, you might pick up a bargain RHD Audi TT in teh UK that was imported when they were all the rage, and re-export it.

[DRVR]

First of all, thanks for all the replies. Truly appreciated.

Second, I'm sorry if I gave the wrong impression, but I'm not coming from the UK. So UK car suggestions will be very welcome too as I don't know what's available over there. The thing is they must have a LHD version as well I guess. Actually when it comes to European cars my favorites were always English and Italian cars. I love everything about them. My favorite cars in the world actually.
I'm moving to Europe from the United States.

Thanks for the suggestions, but when I said German cars it also included VW/Audi and Opel. Specially not a Golf. I'm not a fan of the so called hot-hatches. I'm actually not a hatchback fan at all.

I'm going to Austria but will also be going to Germany often. But I thought buying a car in any other E.U. country would be no problem? You have no importing taxes within the E.U. right? Is it hard to transfer the title?

About the suggestions:

VW Golf mk4 r32- As I said above, not a fan of hatchbacks and in special the Golf.

Mazda RX8- Can they really be bought for that cheap?

Lexus IS 200- Aren't they 4-doors only?

Porsche-I think they will be too expensive to maintain, no? Specially one so old. I really don't mind the age of the car as longs as it meets the criteria. I love classic coupes, muscle cars, sports or most performance cars, no matter the age. Specially fastbacks. My favorite or perfect car is a fastback with a good "powerful" engine, a manual gear box (4 or 5-speed, doesn't matter) and of course RWD.

Audi TT- Well, it's German. . But also I couldn't find any Quattro for that cheap, not even LHD on Ebay UK. If not Quattro they are basically Golfs right? 1.8 FWD? Not to mention I'm not a fan of it's design. Like a giant stepped on a VW Beetle. But I would consider a Quattro since I think it's V6 and AWD and I'm sure it's pretty reliable, being German. It doesn't really look bad either. Just not my coup of tea. But I think I have no chance finding one that cheap unless it's wracked.

BMWs and Mercedes- To be honest, even if money was not an issue, new or used, besides Porsche and the R8, the only other German cars I kind of like are the BMW 6 and the Audi coupe, which are new models and I could never afford. I specially dislike BMWs E30 and E36.

The prices really seem to be cheaper in the UK. Crazily so. I wonder why? Prices in Germany for example for the very same cars are insanely crazy! Sometimes I think about just buying a car in the UK and using a RHD in a LHD country, if that's legal. Although probably dangerous and confusing driving a RHD car in LHD traffic. The cheapest country in mainland Europe seems to be Spain for some reason. Although I didn't get to look around much on sites outside of the UK because of the language. The only non English language sites I looked was autoscout24.de, mobile.de and autoscout24.eu.
Besides ebay, what are other good E.U.-wide sites to look? Or even local German, Austrian, Italian, Spanish and Uk sites?

Thanks again guys!

Edited by DRVR on Saturday 23 June 18:21

Edited by DRVR on Saturday 23 June 18:23

Edited by DRVR on Saturday 23 June 18:24

[McHaggis]

Ah - understood. We probably assumed UK as there are a lot of UK posters on this site and it can be the default assumption.

To be honest, I don't know much about Austria used cars. If you are moving to a big company, your best bet might be intercompany noticeboard and word of mouth.

Good luck and welcome to Europe. Austria will be a great base to explore lots of Europe. Great access to some awesome roads. Easy route to get to Swiss alpine passes, Italian Grand Prix and some fine cities... not that I'm biased..

[kiethton]

Porsche 924s/944? I know it's German but not too common...

[Ozzie Osmond]

DRVR said:

I'm moving to Europe.....

As you have just learnt, many British people do not consider the UK to be in "Europe" which is somewhat perverse given its geographic location and nearly 40 years membership of the EEC/EU! There is also a deeply ingrained view that an association of states under a federal system and using a single currency couldn't possibly work. The US is, of course, is known to be a monoculture comprising Florida, New York and California where everybody is fat, speaks English, eats hamburgers and drives cars using 1950s technology.

[DRVR]

McHaggis said:

To be honest, I don't know much about Austria used cars.

As I mentioned, I'm not really looking only in Austria. I think I would find more selection and better prices in other European countries. I don't mind driving it back to Austria. It would be actually fun!

Or importing cars from other E.U. countries is complicated?

McHaggis said:

Good luck and welcome to Europe. Austria will be a great base to explore lots of Europe. Great access to some awesome roads. Easy route to get to Swiss alpine passes, Italian Grand Prix and some fine cities... not that I'm biased..

Thanks for the welcome. Yes, I'm looking forward to driving on the Autobahn and also around the Alpes.

[DRVR]

kiethton said:

Porsche 924s/944? I know it's German but not too common...

Just afraid or running/maintenance costs.

[DRVR]

Ozzie Osmond said:

As you have just learnt, many British people do not consider the UK to be in "Europe" which is somewhat perverse given its geographic location and nearly 40 years membership of the EEC/EU!

Yeah, I have heard of that actually. I should have been more specific, sorry.

Ozzie Osmond said:

The US is, of course, is known to be a monoculture comprising Florida, New York and California where everybody is fat, speaks English, eats hamburgers and drives cars using 1950s technology.

I hope that wont affect people's will to throw in their replies to help in this thread.


By the way, if I could have it my way I would get a XK8 or XKR (MK1). It's as close to perfect to me as it can get and it's actually one of my favorite cars ever. Such a beautiful and timeless design. Classy yet muscular. In the UK I could actually maybe afford it. But in mainland Europe the same type of XK8/XKR that sells in the UK for 4,000 pounds sells for over 10K Euros. Crazy! I almost thought of buying one in the UK, finding a LHD wrecked one and convert it to LHD. Probably would still be cheaper than buying in the continent. The only fault is that they came in automatic only. Otherwise it would be really the perfect car. A V8, a GT, fast, comfortable. Unless Jaguar drivers are seen as pompous people over there? I know the service would also kill me. They say if you can't afford a new Jaguar you can't afford an old one, hehehe.
The next thing is an Alfa GTV. A bit on the small side. But if it was RWD I would go for it.

[Kolbenkopp]

Ah well that clears up a few things .

First about the registration issues: getting RHD drive cars on the road is no problem. You can also buy and sell cars between EU countries without too much hassle. However many countries have some sort of taxation in place (usually some "ecology" related nonsense designed to lighten your wallet and get old cars of the road). This tax applies to cars bought directly in the country as well as any car imported to it. So to get it on the road (a license plate) you need to pay again.

Assuming you will be living and registering the car in Austria, there's good news and bad news. The bad news: you have to pay car tax based on the HP of the engine. A 200 HP car is about 800 € per year. And to get the car registered in the first place, you will have to pay the NOVA fee (one time fee). This is mainly based on the amount of CO2 the car produces and quickly gets very expensive. And it will be even worse from next year on.

The good news? Lovely, lovely country. Some very nice driving roads indeed.

[1] http://www.bca-group.com/eu-en/import-export-guide...

[DRVR]

Kolbenkopp said:

First about the registration issues: getting RHD drive cars on the road is no problem.

But I would think it's probably pretty nerve-wracking to drive a RHD in a LHD country. Although with the UK prices it's sure tempting. Does the UK have lower taxes for cars? Is this why it's that much cheaper there?

Kolbenkopp said:

You can also buy and sell cars between EU countries without too much hassle. However many countries have some sort of taxation in place (usually some "ecology" related nonsense designed to lighten your wallet and get old cars of the road). This tax applies to cars bought directly in the country as well as any car imported to it. So to get it on the road (a license plate) you need to pay again.
Assuming you will be living and registering the car in Austria, there's good news and bad news. The bad news: you have to pay car tax based on the HP of the engine. A 200 HP car is about 800 € per year.

A year? Is that insurance?
So it seems that buying something with potential but not so powerful in stock form is better? Since I think they wont charge you if you increase the HP afterwards?

Kolbenkopp said:

And to get the car registered in the first place, you will have to pay the NOVA fee (one time fee). This is mainly based on the amount of CO2 the car produces and quickly gets very expensive. And it will be even worse from next year on.

The good news? Lovely, lovely country. Some very nice driving roads indeed.

[1] http://www.bca-group.com/eu-en/import-export-guide...

Thanks for the link. Any idea of what this NOVA is based on? % of the price of the car, brand and type or? Trying to figure how much it could be.

By the way, any suggestions for car models?

Anybody actually. Don't be shy. I know you know your car stuff around Europe.

[Ozzie Osmond]

The simple answer to your question would be, "something built in Germany". But having said that, there are some quite interesting cars from France, Italy and Spain which simply aren't on sale in USA. Well worth a look if you're fancying a change from the usual default choices.

[cheadle hulme]

Welcome. What about a Peugeot 406 Coupe? Not RWD (you need German for that!), but ticks all other boxes.

V6, very pretty coupe (Italian Pininfarina design) and very nice low mileage examples within your budget.

Here's a nice one on French eBay

http://cgi.ebay.fr/Peugeot-406-coupe-V6-/261038488...

[DRVR]

Ozzie Osmond said:

The simple answer to your question would be, "something built in Germany". But having said that, there are some quite interesting cars from France, Italy and Spain which simply aren't on sale in USA. Well worth a look if you're fancying a change from the usual default choices.

Well, that's exactly what I want. A car different to what's available in the U.S.
Even because any American V8 or performance car in Europe would be most likely expensive. Besides i really want something "local".

So Germany is really the only country that produced affordable RWD performance oriented cars? Interesting. Any time I hear German car I think "expensive"!

What kind of older fastbacks do you have in Europe, including the UK of course?

[McHaggis]

Just to check, you have seen European gas prices haven't you?

I've lived in the US and I suggest that from a budget point of view, take any US running cost and double it... if not more.

High initial cost of cars (think US prices + 50-75%)
Higher road tax (a yearly charge)
Yearly mandatory inspections against strict set of conditions for your car
High fuel prices
etc

Please buy something awesome if you have the budget, but there is a reason that the majority of Europe is running around in 1.6/1.8/2.0 turbo diesels.

Otherwise, go big and German/British, but you budget is going to be a real limiter.

[DRVR]

cheadle hulme said:

Welcome. What about a Peugeot 406 Coupe? Not RWD (you need German for that!),

I'm really surprised by that. I thought Italy, land of Ferrari, Lamborghini De Tomaso, Alfa and England, land of Jaguar, Aston Martin, Lotus and Mclaren F1 would have a tradition in producing performance cars of all prices, and performance cars tend to be RWD, at least older ones, which is what I would probably be able to afford. I guess I had the wrong picture.

The Peugeot 406 Coupe is not a bad looking car. But if I would to go with FWD then there's a dozen cars I would rather go instead of a Peugeot. An Alfa GTV V6 would be one. FWD would really open the options to pretty much anything else. Pretty much any V6 Alfa would be better than a Peugeot/Renault/Citroen IMO. Just a matter of preference really.

Edited by DRVR on Saturday 23 June 22:41

[DRVR]

McHaggis said:

Just to check, you have seen European gas prices haven't you?

I've lived in the US and I suggest that from a budget point of view, take any US running cost and double it... if not more.

High initial cost of cars (think US prices + 50-75%)
Higher road tax (a yearly charge)
Yearly mandatory inspections against strict set of conditions for your car
High fuel prices
etc

Please buy something awesome if you have the budget, but there is a reason that the majority of Europe is running around in 1.6/1.8/2.0 turbo diesels.

Otherwise, go big and German/British, but you budget is going to be a real limiter.

Yes, I know gas there is more expensive. But wasn't aware of all the extra taxes. In terms of engines, lots of Audi, BMW and Mercedes are V6 and even V8 and I saw a lot of them on the road there so I thought it wasn't like most people drive 1.6-2.0 cars. Maybe again I got the wrong picture.
I would not like to drive an American V8 there for many reasons and specially gas would be one.