The good old dangerous days.
Discussion
Musing about this from another thread. My parents (and family) were possibly the last of that era when you had lots of kids with the expectation that some would be lost to misadventure along the way; providing at least one or two made it to age 18 then it was fine, and at least you got to learn some interesting things about what happens when a probing finger meets an electrical socket or the exciting variety of bones that can be broken falling off a bicycle mid-stunt along the way.
This was perhaps most clearly illustrated by their attitude to transporting children.
Despite having experienced the wonders of old-school crashes of the jagged metal everywhere, occupants being flung through windscreens, long recuperative periods in hospital variety, cars were treated with the same sort of casual disdain for child safety that saw me "learning" to ride a bike without stabilisers by being pushed down a steep gravel hill.
One of the more vivid memories is being picked up from school by my aunt and uncle, who despite having a tribe of children that nowadays would warrant a people carrier, got by with an Astramax van. Transporting lots of children? No problem - open the tailgate and load 'em in! The first two will get to perch on a wheelarch, if you're lucky there might be a couple of boxes of print materials to sit on, but otherwise... children bounce, don't they? On the other hand, it was a lot better than being strapped safely into a seat and booster cushion. You never get bored enough to ask "are we there yet?" when you're actively engaged in sliding across the floor of a van with every corner and hill.
Amazing really. Although I do think they all drove a lot more carefully to compensate. (Maybe out of a desire to not be clouted by a small child hurtling from atop the rear armrest of a Nissan Bluebird during any sharp braking?)
What are your memories of days and attitudes when a back seat was more a sort of general free-form holding pen for children?
This was perhaps most clearly illustrated by their attitude to transporting children.
Despite having experienced the wonders of old-school crashes of the jagged metal everywhere, occupants being flung through windscreens, long recuperative periods in hospital variety, cars were treated with the same sort of casual disdain for child safety that saw me "learning" to ride a bike without stabilisers by being pushed down a steep gravel hill.
One of the more vivid memories is being picked up from school by my aunt and uncle, who despite having a tribe of children that nowadays would warrant a people carrier, got by with an Astramax van. Transporting lots of children? No problem - open the tailgate and load 'em in! The first two will get to perch on a wheelarch, if you're lucky there might be a couple of boxes of print materials to sit on, but otherwise... children bounce, don't they? On the other hand, it was a lot better than being strapped safely into a seat and booster cushion. You never get bored enough to ask "are we there yet?" when you're actively engaged in sliding across the floor of a van with every corner and hill.
Amazing really. Although I do think they all drove a lot more carefully to compensate. (Maybe out of a desire to not be clouted by a small child hurtling from atop the rear armrest of a Nissan Bluebird during any sharp braking?)
What are your memories of days and attitudes when a back seat was more a sort of general free-form holding pen for children?
There were only two of us kids, so I only have two tales.
Firstly I remember my dad buying a new bike from somewhere 30 miles away or so. It came fully assembled - no quick release bits then - so it went in the back of the Maxi with the seats folded down. The two of us just fitted around it - it's not like bikes are metal and have sharp bits, after all. We passed the time by lifting the carpet in the boot and watching the road rush by through the holes in the floor.
The second story is that I once fell out of the back of the same Maxi, backwards. I was sitting with my feet on the seat, leaning my back on the door. The door opened, and I rolled out.
Actually (story 3) I remember going to play 5 a side with about 6 or 7 other kids in the boot of a Nissan estate of some sort. Datsun, probably, thinking about it.
A mate wasn't so lucky - he has four brothers. Fitting 5 kids into a car was tricky when they were designed for 3 in the back. He tells the story of one of them having to go in the boot as they got bigger. This worked ok with hatchbacks - you could just take the parcel shelf out. Their dad bought a Princess, thinking it was a hatch. They weren't - even he wouldn't put a kid in an dark, enclosed boot. So, he got a hacksaw, and cut out the 'parcel shelf' Unfortunately this meant the car started to collapse in on itself. So he put a big bit of wood in to brace it, and drove it like that instead.
Not sure that wold get a MOT now ....
Firstly I remember my dad buying a new bike from somewhere 30 miles away or so. It came fully assembled - no quick release bits then - so it went in the back of the Maxi with the seats folded down. The two of us just fitted around it - it's not like bikes are metal and have sharp bits, after all. We passed the time by lifting the carpet in the boot and watching the road rush by through the holes in the floor.
The second story is that I once fell out of the back of the same Maxi, backwards. I was sitting with my feet on the seat, leaning my back on the door. The door opened, and I rolled out.
Actually (story 3) I remember going to play 5 a side with about 6 or 7 other kids in the boot of a Nissan estate of some sort. Datsun, probably, thinking about it.
A mate wasn't so lucky - he has four brothers. Fitting 5 kids into a car was tricky when they were designed for 3 in the back. He tells the story of one of them having to go in the boot as they got bigger. This worked ok with hatchbacks - you could just take the parcel shelf out. Their dad bought a Princess, thinking it was a hatch. They weren't - even he wouldn't put a kid in an dark, enclosed boot. So, he got a hacksaw, and cut out the 'parcel shelf' Unfortunately this meant the car started to collapse in on itself. So he put a big bit of wood in to brace it, and drove it like that instead.
Not sure that wold get a MOT now ....
Yep - it's interesting talking to other children of the (early) '80s because it was a transitional era between attitudes then and attitudes now. Some react with a 
, others with a 
.
Seatbelt laws were a massive disappointment. Imagine a few weeks ago you've been free to move about, have a fight with your stepsister, lower the 60/40 split-folding rear seat and crawl into the boot*... and now you have to sit in one place being sensible because your dad's just bought a car with rear seatbelts.
* - OK, I'll admit we did get told off when we did this.
, others with a .Seatbelt laws were a massive disappointment. Imagine a few weeks ago you've been free to move about, have a fight with your stepsister, lower the 60/40 split-folding rear seat and crawl into the boot*... and now you have to sit in one place being sensible because your dad's just bought a car with rear seatbelts.
* - OK, I'll admit we did get told off when we did this.
Coming from a big family, 5 kids, I can remember my dad making a seat over the handbrake in the Rover P6. My younger brother, maybe aged 4/5 at the time, had the privilege of using this on our hoilday trips to Devon, perched up high facing the windscreen with not a restraint in sight whilst my other brother two sisters and myself sat in the back. If you were to try that now they would be locking you up and chucking away the key!
Coming back from the Banger Racing in Buxton, Four of us in the back of a Chevette with the seats down as my dad flung it round the Cat and Fiddle, us all rolling about having a great time.
And we didnt die etc etc, health and safety gone mad etc but if we had crashed it would have been a lot worse than if we were strapped in, that said in a Chevette we would have been toast anyway so may as well enjoy it.
And we didnt die etc etc, health and safety gone mad etc but if we had crashed it would have been a lot worse than if we were strapped in, that said in a Chevette we would have been toast anyway so may as well enjoy it.
2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
And if OP was in an Astramax it actually wasn't that long ago!
I would have thought it had abs. Pooftas I think growing up in the late 60s and early 70s was most exciting and dangerous. Cars that would do over a ton, on rubbish tyres, no laminated screens, no seat belts fitted and no legal requirement to use them.
70s kids are rock, 80s on just ghey.
I had a couple of days off this week so I built a ramp for my nephews to ride their BMX's over. They were having fun but holding back. "Are you worried about getting hurt?" I asked and was shocked to hear "We don't want to get into trouble at school. We have Health and Safety lessons". 
Health and Safety lessons at primary school! What the f
k has this world become? 
Health and Safety lessons at primary school! What the f
k has this world become? blugnu said:
The second story is that I once fell out of the back of the same Maxi, backwards. I was sitting with my feet on the seat, leaning my back on the door. The door opened, and I rolled out.
The same happened to me as a kid, Mk IV Cortina swiftly replaced with very early 3 door Metro.I remember when my dad had a MK II Jaguar in the early 60's , I would have been about 4 or 5 at the time and I used to stand on top of the transmission tunnel with an elbow on the back of each of the front seats . By standing in that position I could just see over the bonnet and , whenever I sighted another car ahead I would call out " Pass him , dad , pass him " - of course my dad was always happy to oblige .
The Jag was traded in 1964 for a new Mercedes , so that memory must have been from only a year or so before .
Another memory , was of the time when the 60mph national speed limit was just introduced . We were in another Jaguar , making good progress down the long straight which extended east from Haddington on the A1 . Next thing there was a police Jaguar drawing slowly alongside and flagging us down ; I can remember saying something like " look - there's a car just like this one " . When we stopped in a lay by I can remember the officer asking my father if he knew what speed he was doing , and the innocent sounding reply " No , officer " . Fortunately , being the first week of the new law , they were just warning people and not issuing tickets .
The Jag was traded in 1964 for a new Mercedes , so that memory must have been from only a year or so before .
Another memory , was of the time when the 60mph national speed limit was just introduced . We were in another Jaguar , making good progress down the long straight which extended east from Haddington on the A1 . Next thing there was a police Jaguar drawing slowly alongside and flagging us down ; I can remember saying something like " look - there's a car just like this one " . When we stopped in a lay by I can remember the officer asking my father if he knew what speed he was doing , and the innocent sounding reply " No , officer " . Fortunately , being the first week of the new law , they were just warning people and not issuing tickets .
A bit O/T but speaking of schools reminds me; my secondary school had a pair of very distinctive Sherpa minibuses, wheezing old things that might if you were lucky struggle their way to 60 with a full complement of kids aboard.
During my sisters' tenure, someone broke into the school and liberated it of whatever TVs, VCRs, BBC Micros and things of that ilk weren't nailed down. CRIMINAL GENIUS decides to use a school minibus as their getaway vehicle. CRIMINAL GENIUS decides to, once they've got home, leave the school minibus parked outside their house on the driveway.
The school's electronic equipment was returned to them rather swiftly, to say the least.
During my sisters' tenure, someone broke into the school and liberated it of whatever TVs, VCRs, BBC Micros and things of that ilk weren't nailed down. CRIMINAL GENIUS decides to use a school minibus as their getaway vehicle. CRIMINAL GENIUS decides to, once they've got home, leave the school minibus parked outside their house on the driveway.
The school's electronic equipment was returned to them rather swiftly, to say the least.
Timberwolf said:
Amazing really. Although I do think they all drove a lot more carefully to compensate. (Maybe out of a desire to not be clouted by a small child hurtling from atop the rear armrest of a Nissan Bluebird during any sharp braking?)
Perhaps there are some rose tinted spectacles still floating around? 
In 1970 there were approx. 1.25bn miles driven on the roads, 356,000 injuries and 7,500 deaths.
In 2010 there were approx. 3.1bn miles driven on the roads, 206,000 injuries and 1850 deaths.
Yep, I've ridden on the wheel arch of a Cortina bakkie, crammed in the boot of a Sierra estate with a dozen other kids on a three hour trip to a bowling tournament, and I am sure there are other incidents of unsecured travel in my childhood.
Blissful ignorance, I think. As soon as Ralph Nader released Unsafe At Any Speed, safety was in the public eye. It's not a bad thing but I think there's a balance to be found between saving a life at all costs and not making life so frustrating or boring that it's not worth saving, and that's perhaps a product of living through the rear seatbelt transition.
I'm all for government etc protecting me from unscrupulous business chiefs happy to risk my safety when it puts a few more bucks in their pocket, but I baulk when the government starts protecting me from myself, as it feels like a loss of freedom.
Basically, I believe I have the right to kill myself in a spectacular display of stupidity should I unwittingly choose to do so. That becomes a sticking point if I take someone out with me though. I can't ever see everyone agreeing on an acceptable middle ground there, which leaves either complete freedom or complete protection as sellable alternatives, and I'm not keen on either.
Blissful ignorance, I think. As soon as Ralph Nader released Unsafe At Any Speed, safety was in the public eye. It's not a bad thing but I think there's a balance to be found between saving a life at all costs and not making life so frustrating or boring that it's not worth saving, and that's perhaps a product of living through the rear seatbelt transition.
I'm all for government etc protecting me from unscrupulous business chiefs happy to risk my safety when it puts a few more bucks in their pocket, but I baulk when the government starts protecting me from myself, as it feels like a loss of freedom.
Basically, I believe I have the right to kill myself in a spectacular display of stupidity should I unwittingly choose to do so. That becomes a sticking point if I take someone out with me though. I can't ever see everyone agreeing on an acceptable middle ground there, which leaves either complete freedom or complete protection as sellable alternatives, and I'm not keen on either.
10 Pence Short said:
Perhaps there are some rose tinted spectacles still floating around?
In 1970 there were approx. 1.25bn miles driven on the roads, 356,000 injuries and 7,500 deaths.
In 2010 there were approx. 3.1bn miles driven on the roads, 206,000 injuries and 1,850 deaths.
Well said Sir! Seat belts, crumple zones and air-bags have proved massively effective at reducing casualties inside cars. ABS has slashed all casualties.In 1970 there were approx. 1.25bn miles driven on the roads, 356,000 injuries and 7,500 deaths.
In 2010 there were approx. 3.1bn miles driven on the roads, 206,000 injuries and 1,850 deaths.
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