Are cars designed around people any more?
Discussion
Taking some time out at this weekend's Goodwood Festival of Speed, I thought I'd try out some new cars for size, see which ones I'd consider buying if I was looking for a sensible car.
I'm not a fan of MPVs or SUVs. I'd want a hatch or saloon, between Focus and 5-series sized.
I have quite long legs, I come from a family of fairly tall people and thinking about it most of my friends are above average height for some reason, so my litmus test of whether I'd find a 'practical' car useful is thus:
-Find a comfy driving position in the front.
-Get out.
-Attempt to sit in the seat directly behind 'me'.
I'm staggered by the number of cars supposedly designed around practical, family use that just aren't. As a race we're supposedly getting taller, but it seems cars are increasingly designed around midgets. Put a pair of adults in a Citroen DS4 and it becomes a 2+2. There is genuinely more room in the back of a Lotus Excel.
I've asked several showroom staff about this and all they do is shrug and mutter something about safety and NCAP ratings, but I'm sorry, you can make a car as safe as you goddam well like, but what's the point if you can't fit people in it?
For what it's worth, most cars in the Mondeo/C5/Superb class and above are fine, but they're also enormous. I also find that Skoda manages to make their seats much thinner (but no less comfortable) than the competition so I can comfortably fit in their entire range.
But why are so many cars so poorly packaged these days?!
I'm not a fan of MPVs or SUVs. I'd want a hatch or saloon, between Focus and 5-series sized.
I have quite long legs, I come from a family of fairly tall people and thinking about it most of my friends are above average height for some reason, so my litmus test of whether I'd find a 'practical' car useful is thus:
-Find a comfy driving position in the front.
-Get out.
-Attempt to sit in the seat directly behind 'me'.
I'm staggered by the number of cars supposedly designed around practical, family use that just aren't. As a race we're supposedly getting taller, but it seems cars are increasingly designed around midgets. Put a pair of adults in a Citroen DS4 and it becomes a 2+2. There is genuinely more room in the back of a Lotus Excel.
I've asked several showroom staff about this and all they do is shrug and mutter something about safety and NCAP ratings, but I'm sorry, you can make a car as safe as you goddam well like, but what's the point if you can't fit people in it?
For what it's worth, most cars in the Mondeo/C5/Superb class and above are fine, but they're also enormous. I also find that Skoda manages to make their seats much thinner (but no less comfortable) than the competition so I can comfortably fit in their entire range.
But why are so many cars so poorly packaged these days?!
Because crumple zones and lashings of equipment mean there's less room to space people out, but we still want cars that will fit on our roads.
If you're tall you need a bigger car. You wouldn't moan about rear legroom in a Fiat 500 would you? And if you struggled to fit into an Elise or MX-5 you might be saddened, but is it the manufacturer's fault? Same thing, just more extreme.
If you're tall you need a bigger car. You wouldn't moan about rear legroom in a Fiat 500 would you? And if you struggled to fit into an Elise or MX-5 you might be saddened, but is it the manufacturer's fault? Same thing, just more extreme.
I think cars are better packaged now than ever. Ford apparently designed the Focus so that people of up to 6'10" could drive it.
If you're routinely going to be carrying tall adults in the back behind tall adults in the front, you probably need a biggish car. That's always been the case.
If you're routinely going to be carrying tall adults in the back behind tall adults in the front, you probably need a biggish car. That's always been the case.
thicker door's and pillars for air bags and other crash safety reinforcements.
Extra soundproofing, larger dash to fit in all the modern gizmo's we require such as climate control systems, multifunction displays, decent sound systems.
So rather than increase the exterior of the car (they do this as well), they impede upon the interior.
Extra soundproofing, larger dash to fit in all the modern gizmo's we require such as climate control systems, multifunction displays, decent sound systems.
So rather than increase the exterior of the car (they do this as well), they impede upon the interior.
JonathanLegard said:
I think cars are better packaged now than ever. Ford apparently designed the Focus so that people of up to 6'10" could drive it.
If you're routinely going to be carrying tall adults in the back behind tall adults in the front, you probably need a biggish car. That's always been the case.
This. People are getting bigger but why would you expect a standard car to be designed to carry numbers of people who are bigger than average? If you're routinely going to be carrying tall adults in the back behind tall adults in the front, you probably need a biggish car. That's always been the case.
LongLiveTazio said:
My new Citigo is very spacious, has loads of kit and yet weighs less than 900kg. It can be done, it's just that styling rules over ergonomics for most companies these days.
I'm 6'6" and I sat in a Citigo/Mii/Up at CPOP and there is a lot of space and a decent boot for the size of the car, I didn't try the back seat though 
ajprice said:
I'm 6'6" and I sat in a Citigo/Mii/Up at CPOP and there is a lot of space and a decent boot for the size of the car, I didn't try the back seat though ajprice said:
LongLiveTazio said:
My new Citigo is very spacious, has loads of kit and yet weighs less than 900kg. It can be done, it's just that styling rules over ergonomics for most companies these days.
I'm 6'6" and I sat in a Citigo/Mii/Up at CPOP and there is a lot of space and a decent boot for the size of the car, I didn't try the back seat though 
Twincam16 said:
Taking some time out at this weekend's Goodwood Festival of Speed, I thought I'd try out some new cars for size, see which ones I'd consider buying if I was looking for a sensible car.
I'm not a fan of MPVs or SUVs. I'd want a hatch or saloon, between Focus and 5-series sized.
I have quite long legs, I come from a family of fairly tall people and thinking about it most of my friends are above average height for some reason, so my litmus test of whether I'd find a 'practical' car useful is thus:
-Find a comfy driving position in the front.
-Get out.
-Attempt to sit in the seat directly behind 'me'.
I'm staggered by the number of cars supposedly designed around practical, family use that just aren't. As a race we're supposedly getting taller, but it seems cars are increasingly designed around midgets. Put a pair of adults in a Citroen DS4 and it becomes a 2+2. There is genuinely more room in the back of a Lotus Excel.
I've asked several showroom staff about this and all they do is shrug and mutter something about safety and NCAP ratings, but I'm sorry, you can make a car as safe as you goddam well like, but what's the point if you can't fit people in it?
For what it's worth, most cars in the Mondeo/C5/Superb class and above are fine, but they're also enormous. I also find that Skoda manages to make their seats much thinner (but no less comfortable) than the competition so I can comfortably fit in their entire range.
But why are so many cars so poorly packaged these days?!
I was also at the Festival of Speed and noticed the packaging issues. Even a Ford B-Max seemed compromised on space; Peugeot 208 was no worse but looks a lot less like a miniature Tranist. I am not powerfully built (6'1" and 13 stone) or a company director; I felt really short and skinny compared to a lot of the crowd there though, so I guess all the PH stereotype about size might be true.I'm not a fan of MPVs or SUVs. I'd want a hatch or saloon, between Focus and 5-series sized.
I have quite long legs, I come from a family of fairly tall people and thinking about it most of my friends are above average height for some reason, so my litmus test of whether I'd find a 'practical' car useful is thus:
-Find a comfy driving position in the front.
-Get out.
-Attempt to sit in the seat directly behind 'me'.
I'm staggered by the number of cars supposedly designed around practical, family use that just aren't. As a race we're supposedly getting taller, but it seems cars are increasingly designed around midgets. Put a pair of adults in a Citroen DS4 and it becomes a 2+2. There is genuinely more room in the back of a Lotus Excel.
I've asked several showroom staff about this and all they do is shrug and mutter something about safety and NCAP ratings, but I'm sorry, you can make a car as safe as you goddam well like, but what's the point if you can't fit people in it?
For what it's worth, most cars in the Mondeo/C5/Superb class and above are fine, but they're also enormous. I also find that Skoda manages to make their seats much thinner (but no less comfortable) than the competition so I can comfortably fit in their entire range.
But why are so many cars so poorly packaged these days?!
We might be getting taller. I would think that the global market for cars has been getting shorter in recent years.
I agree with the comments about it being unreasonable to expect a small-ish car to accomodate two tall people one behind the other, though. That's why cars come in a range of sizes.
I agree with the comments about it being unreasonable to expect a small-ish car to accomodate two tall people one behind the other, though. That's why cars come in a range of sizes.
rhinochopig said:
ajprice said:
LongLiveTazio said:
My new Citigo is very spacious, has loads of kit and yet weighs less than 900kg. It can be done, it's just that styling rules over ergonomics for most companies these days.
I'm 6'6" and I sat in a Citigo/Mii/Up at CPOP and there is a lot of space and a decent boot for the size of the car, I didn't try the back seat though 
Zoobeef said:
Try a skoda superb estate. Sat in the back of my parents yesterday and I could of gotten a suitcase between my knees and the front seat. That's with their seats in the normal positions
I noticed that. Going on trying cars out for size I reckon there's probably more space in a Superb than there is in an S-class.JonathanLegard said:
I think cars are better packaged now than ever. Ford apparently designed the Focus so that people of up to 6'10" could drive it.
If you're routinely going to be carrying tall adults in the back behind tall adults in the front, you probably need a biggish car. That's always been the case.
I'm 5'11" - I drive a focus, seat at its lowest setting, a bit over halfway back and my eyeline is right at the top of the wiper sweep, any taller and I wouldn't be able to drive it (I have got stumpy legs and a long body though)If you're routinely going to be carrying tall adults in the back behind tall adults in the front, you probably need a biggish car. That's always been the case.
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