TVR gone too far?
Discussion
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyI...
In a follow up to the story above. I suggested a Eurolotto winner could lend me a couple of million to bring the company back to the UK.
But what would you do if you were in charge of TVR?
I have a few ideas but I'm curious as to what you'd do first and see if my ideas are similar.
In a follow up to the story above. I suggested a Eurolotto winner could lend me a couple of million to bring the company back to the UK.
But what would you do if you were in charge of TVR?
I have a few ideas but I'm curious as to what you'd do first and see if my ideas are similar.
I don't understand why he doesn't sell the name. I think there's a degree of truth in what he's saying about the costs and I'm not convinced anyone else would fare dramatically better, but I'm sure someone would have a go. What cache can the TVR name possibly have in wind power? I can't imagine the company's intellectual property will transfer over particularly readily either. It's bizarre.
If i got in charge of TVR:
1) take the tamora design, cut out unneeded costs and prepare for easy assembly
2) contact ford and buy some ecoboost 2.0 crate engines rated at the 300hp they have in the radical SR3
3) put said crate engine into modified Tamoras, sell for 35-40k, or however cheaply you could without losing money on them, to build up volume.
once you get some volume going with Tamora's, proceed to phase 2
4) repeat steps 1-3 with the sagaris/chevy LS3, priced to make a bit more profit, market as a halo car
once you are generating a healthy income on Tamoras and gaining some press/r&d budget with sagaris sales, procede to phase 3
5) develop the Tamora into its succesor, this time offering a bit more options, make a coupe, add the option for a 6-cilinder, perhaps a low-end model with a 200hp 1.6T ford engine
6) Take the Typhon design, and develop that into the new Halo model, move the sagaris a bit down the line, but keep selling it, perhaps with a slightly less powerfull engine and lower price.
1) take the tamora design, cut out unneeded costs and prepare for easy assembly
2) contact ford and buy some ecoboost 2.0 crate engines rated at the 300hp they have in the radical SR3
3) put said crate engine into modified Tamoras, sell for 35-40k, or however cheaply you could without losing money on them, to build up volume.
once you get some volume going with Tamora's, proceed to phase 2
4) repeat steps 1-3 with the sagaris/chevy LS3, priced to make a bit more profit, market as a halo car
once you are generating a healthy income on Tamoras and gaining some press/r&d budget with sagaris sales, procede to phase 3
5) develop the Tamora into its succesor, this time offering a bit more options, make a coupe, add the option for a 6-cilinder, perhaps a low-end model with a 200hp 1.6T ford engine
6) Take the Typhon design, and develop that into the new Halo model, move the sagaris a bit down the line, but keep selling it, perhaps with a slightly less powerfull engine and lower price.
Liquid Knight said:
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyI...
In a follow up to the story above. I suggested a Eurolotto winner could lend me a couple of million to bring the company back to the UK.
But what would you do if you were in charge of TVR?
I have a few ideas but I'm curious as to what you'd do first and see if my ideas are similar.
I can see two ways of taking such an endeavor, probably depending on financial backing:In a follow up to the story above. I suggested a Eurolotto winner could lend me a couple of million to bring the company back to the UK.
But what would you do if you were in charge of TVR?
I have a few ideas but I'm curious as to what you'd do first and see if my ideas are similar.
1. Take up the same idea as the Chim and Griff where. Simple chassis, mass produced oily bits. Good sports car and pitch it at the GT86, 370z and Ginetta G40R type of price point.
2. Being more adventurous and taking the Jaguar idea a step further. See if you could sign an engine/transmission deal and sell at £50k or so a car and see if you could use the Jaguar dealer network. You'd probably need to re-brand the car slightly, but have it as an additional reason for customers/potential customers to visit a Jag dealer and being Jag powered. While extending a way of selling the cars to the public.
I would dig out the Griff tooling, drop in an LSX motor, ensure good electrics, hire a chassis guru fine tune and sell for sub £50k.
I wouldn't invest in R&D, no need to 'move with the times', just find the low volume legislation loop holes and just keep making them for as long as I can - they will sell.
Crate in as much as I can, make as little as I can get away with. The exterior / interior need zero attention anyway. In this age of ever increasing complexity and general frustration amongst the target market, a traditional british brute/cruiser which is easy to DIY will fill a niche nobody is really catering for today. No need for it to handle like a Lotus or be built like a Porsche - just go, look, and be priced as a TVR.
Once the order books fill, I'll go back to a one-make race series to draw the crowds - good looking cars, V8 thunder, over steer - a perfect spectator sport!
I'd be fending off customers at the door with a s
tty stick I tell ya!
I wouldn't invest in R&D, no need to 'move with the times', just find the low volume legislation loop holes and just keep making them for as long as I can - they will sell.
Crate in as much as I can, make as little as I can get away with. The exterior / interior need zero attention anyway. In this age of ever increasing complexity and general frustration amongst the target market, a traditional british brute/cruiser which is easy to DIY will fill a niche nobody is really catering for today. No need for it to handle like a Lotus or be built like a Porsche - just go, look, and be priced as a TVR.
Once the order books fill, I'll go back to a one-make race series to draw the crowds - good looking cars, V8 thunder, over steer - a perfect spectator sport!
I'd be fending off customers at the door with a s
tty stick I tell ya! I'd offer an immediate three-model range like this:
Offer as kit or turnkey. DON'T attempt full-scale production. Instead, pitch TVR against the kit-car market from which it was originally spawned, up against minilalist track-day cars, Cobras and various '60s replicas.
Base all cars around the same chassis. Build the chassis to a very high standard, properly galvanised. Chassis designed to take a range of 'crate' engine/gearbox packages from Ford Zetec, Mazda MX and Honda Vtec right up to Chevrolet and Ford V8 via BMW straight-six.
Offer a choice of three bodies to that base mechanical unit - the old M-series coupe, as a 'retro' option:
The Griffith, as it's probably the TVR most people immediately associate with TVR, it's got a high recognition-factor, and yet it's trimmed with lots of parts-bin bits and the interior is much simpler for someone to build and trim at home if they wished. It also had a Rover V8 when it was new anyway, so it doesn't have a 'thoroughbred' image to be tarnished by other engine options anyway:
And as a 'budget' option as a result of its minimalism and simplicity, which can either function as a sunny summer weekend-blast toy, a track-day special or a dragstrip mentalist depending on what engine you put in it (so tilted at anything from the Sylva Phoenix to racing-spec Westfield S8s), the Tuscan Challenge:
So, you have your 'retro' option, your 'still modern-looking Brit super-sports car' option and your 'minimalist track-day' option. All bases covered, only a need for one basic mechanical base (the engineering is such that you merely drop whatever body you want on top of it and wire up all the electrics), and TVR retained all the body moulds anyway.
Given that Cobra replicas make up a very sizeable chunk of the kit-car market, and Lotus Seven-replica easy-build track cars make up another, I can see that model lineup working rather well with both, as I have a sneaking suspicion that many people driving around in turnkey Cobras and Sevens would have traditionally bought TVRs anyway.
Offer as kit or turnkey. DON'T attempt full-scale production. Instead, pitch TVR against the kit-car market from which it was originally spawned, up against minilalist track-day cars, Cobras and various '60s replicas.
Base all cars around the same chassis. Build the chassis to a very high standard, properly galvanised. Chassis designed to take a range of 'crate' engine/gearbox packages from Ford Zetec, Mazda MX and Honda Vtec right up to Chevrolet and Ford V8 via BMW straight-six.
Offer a choice of three bodies to that base mechanical unit - the old M-series coupe, as a 'retro' option:
The Griffith, as it's probably the TVR most people immediately associate with TVR, it's got a high recognition-factor, and yet it's trimmed with lots of parts-bin bits and the interior is much simpler for someone to build and trim at home if they wished. It also had a Rover V8 when it was new anyway, so it doesn't have a 'thoroughbred' image to be tarnished by other engine options anyway:
And as a 'budget' option as a result of its minimalism and simplicity, which can either function as a sunny summer weekend-blast toy, a track-day special or a dragstrip mentalist depending on what engine you put in it (so tilted at anything from the Sylva Phoenix to racing-spec Westfield S8s), the Tuscan Challenge:
So, you have your 'retro' option, your 'still modern-looking Brit super-sports car' option and your 'minimalist track-day' option. All bases covered, only a need for one basic mechanical base (the engineering is such that you merely drop whatever body you want on top of it and wire up all the electrics), and TVR retained all the body moulds anyway.
Given that Cobra replicas make up a very sizeable chunk of the kit-car market, and Lotus Seven-replica easy-build track cars make up another, I can see that model lineup working rather well with both, as I have a sneaking suspicion that many people driving around in turnkey Cobras and Sevens would have traditionally bought TVRs anyway.
Tuvra said:
*TVR Sagris with the folding roof found on the TuscanII
Please promise me you won't ever do that to a TVR...- 6 Speed Manual Gearbox
- 2.5 litre Ford Focus RS Engine (MP350/RS500 Tune) 350bhp.
- Lightweight Interior with minimum toys
- Price somewhere in the region of £45k.
I would build in much smaller numbers and it would be more of a hobby than a business. (Bearing in mind i have just won 150mil) no more than around 20 staff
I would knock up around 5 of each car like griff, tuscan ,Typhoon, Sag , and cerb. so 5 chassis bodys and all the bits needed to build around 25-30 cars Ls engines and also offer a duel fuel lpg option to bring running costs down. try to sell them for around 50-55k and get the chassis protection right this time by galvanizing all the chassis.
Once all the cars are built and prove to the public that it can be done then start to market them and take it from there.
I would knock up around 5 of each car like griff, tuscan ,Typhoon, Sag , and cerb. so 5 chassis bodys and all the bits needed to build around 25-30 cars Ls engines and also offer a duel fuel lpg option to bring running costs down. try to sell them for around 50-55k and get the chassis protection right this time by galvanizing all the chassis.
Once all the cars are built and prove to the public that it can be done then start to market them and take it from there.
daveparry said:
This is pure car porn!!!!
I would gladly sell one on my kidneys and put my wife out working the streets to own that car.....Tuvra said:
*TVR Sagris with the folding roof found on the TuscanII
- 6 Speed Manual Gearbox
- 2.5 litre Ford Focus RS Engine (MP350/RS500 Tune) 350bhp.
- Lightweight Interior with minimum toys
- Price somewhere in the region of £45k.
Seems to me that the TVR bad times started when Peter Wheeler decided to drop the Rover V8 and design his own engines, which pushed the prices too far into Boxster S territory.
I had a Chimaera 400 and then a 500 and they were great cars. A new Chimaera 400 was 32,000 quid. Which was a bit cheaper than an un-optioned Boxster, but with V8 Muscle and THAT noise. And that was the appeal...it was British, it was blokish and it was good value.
As said below, I'd go simple, use the existing chassis and bodywork designs (as they still look great) use 'crate' drivetrains and concentrate investment on the things that were problems on the old cars. So the electrics and the 'on edge' handling. I would however make sure that the engines were 6s and V8s...no turbo 4's in a Trevor thank you!!
And it would have to be priced under a basic Boxster...40k absolute tops.
I had a Chimaera 400 and then a 500 and they were great cars. A new Chimaera 400 was 32,000 quid. Which was a bit cheaper than an un-optioned Boxster, but with V8 Muscle and THAT noise. And that was the appeal...it was British, it was blokish and it was good value.
As said below, I'd go simple, use the existing chassis and bodywork designs (as they still look great) use 'crate' drivetrains and concentrate investment on the things that were problems on the old cars. So the electrics and the 'on edge' handling. I would however make sure that the engines were 6s and V8s...no turbo 4's in a Trevor thank you!!
And it would have to be priced under a basic Boxster...40k absolute tops.
Edited by jezzaaa on Wednesday 11th July 11:12
I've seen some good ideas on this and the other thread.
I'd go through with the V8 Diesel sports/supercar. It hasn't been done to this extent so TVR would have the market cornered (if there is one
)
A breathed on 2.0 Ecoboost engine in one of the smaller cars, at a lower entry price ~35-40k
I'd go through with the V8 Diesel sports/supercar. It hasn't been done to this extent so TVR would have the market cornered (if there is one
)A breathed on 2.0 Ecoboost engine in one of the smaller cars, at a lower entry price ~35-40k
jezzaaa said:
As said below, I'd go simple, use the existing chassis and bodywork designs (as they still look great) use 'crate' drivetrains and concentrate investment on the things that were problems on the old cars. So the electrics and the 'on edge' handling. I would however make sure that the engines were V6s and V8s...no turbo 4's in a Trevor thank you!!
Another vote for keeping it simple.Existing models but with better rustproofing on the chassis and a bought-in powerplant.
BMW straight sixes replacing the Speed 6 (no need for 'budget' 4cyl models that way, I'd simply use a smaller capacity BMW six) with associated gearboxes and diffs.
Make the electrics and switchgear a focus for improvement.
That's it initially - no expensive engine and drivetrain development, put the focus on reliability and ease of maintenance and a choice of styles - Tuscan, Sagaris, Tamora and T350 with a Griff Retro option as a special order using a GM V8.
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