Driver settings. Good or bad idea?
Discussion
I'm not against technology, improved safety, ABS and ESP are definitely a good thing but the proliferation of a multitude of driver's settings on new "performance" cars really concerns me. I've just read the first drive on the new Audi RS4 in Evo and it seems that despite having an infinite amount of settings for steering/suspension etc, none of them are actually any good or work in the real world. If I was buying a new performance car, I just want to get in, drive it and enjoy it. I've owned several quick cars (205 GTi, Corrado VR6 and an Impreza WRX currently amongst others) and have never once thought, I wish the suspension was a bit softer/firmer or the throttle response was crisper/less crisp. These cars have just been set up right in the first place. To give an example, the on-paper spec of the E60 M5 is pretty mouthwatering but the number of different settings would do my head in and this is probably why the E39 M5 is so loved on PH. Is it not possible to set a car up so that it is supple, yet well-controlled with well-weighted steering any more. Even my wife's Fiat 500 has a city driving button which turns the steering from very light to feeling completely disconnected. What a joke! Also, why would I want a button that unleashes an extra 100bhp? If I had bought a 500bhp car, I would want the full 500bhp at my disposal all of the time. The only gadgets that I would find worthwhile would be a button to mute the engine if it was particularly loud (don't want to annoy the neighbours when I set off early) and in these times of austerity, a button to optimise economy.
A lot of these so-called performance cars also now have an automatic gearbox. I don't have a problem with AMGs approach (their engines are torquey enough for a slush box not to be a problem) but why fit a high-revving V8 like in the RS4 and then offer no manual option? The old RS4 was a better car for having a manual box and at least you still get the option on an M3.
To be fair, I haven't really experienced driving a car with all these gadgets. Do they actually work or are they just annoying? The closest thing that I have experienced is a DSG-equipped Golf GTI. Great gearbox on a TSI or TDI but for me, the DSG just highlighted turbo-lag that was barely perceptible on the manual version. I don't really care if the gearchange is smoother, 0.01 seconds quicker and 5mpg more economical (not any more economical in my experience) and I couldn't be bothered to use the paddles as ultimately, the gearbox thinks it knows better any way.
Sorry Audi and BMW, up until now, an RS Audi or M BMW would have been right up my street but if the new models are anything to go by, if I had the money then I would be looking at an AMG!
A lot of these so-called performance cars also now have an automatic gearbox. I don't have a problem with AMGs approach (their engines are torquey enough for a slush box not to be a problem) but why fit a high-revving V8 like in the RS4 and then offer no manual option? The old RS4 was a better car for having a manual box and at least you still get the option on an M3.
To be fair, I haven't really experienced driving a car with all these gadgets. Do they actually work or are they just annoying? The closest thing that I have experienced is a DSG-equipped Golf GTI. Great gearbox on a TSI or TDI but for me, the DSG just highlighted turbo-lag that was barely perceptible on the manual version. I don't really care if the gearchange is smoother, 0.01 seconds quicker and 5mpg more economical (not any more economical in my experience) and I couldn't be bothered to use the paddles as ultimately, the gearbox thinks it knows better any way.
Sorry Audi and BMW, up until now, an RS Audi or M BMW would have been right up my street but if the new models are anything to go by, if I had the money then I would be looking at an AMG!
Dave Hedgehog said:
settings are a gimmick imo
you will spend a week playing with them and then ignore it
its not needed a well sorted car is a well sorted car, the R8 does not need them (its fine on stock suspension)
OK, so are they trying to cover up the fact that they can't get it right by putting the onus on the driver? i.e. if you complain that the ride is too firm, they can just say you must have it on the wrong setting sir! It's funny that they can get it spot on, the old RS4 and R8 are highly regarded and then completely mess it up (RS5)? All the great driver's cars from the past that I can think of were perfect without needing to make infinite adjustments.you will spend a week playing with them and then ignore it
its not needed a well sorted car is a well sorted car, the R8 does not need them (its fine on stock suspension)
FreeLitres said:
sparks_E39 said:
If I had an E60 M5 I would make sure it's in the best setting possible, then never touch the settings again. Actually I wouldn't, I'd sell it and buy an E39....
Really? I'll take the E60!!!white_goodman said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
settings are a gimmick imo
you will spend a week playing with them and then ignore it
its not needed a well sorted car is a well sorted car, the R8 does not need them (its fine on stock suspension)
OK, so are they trying to cover up the fact that they can't get it right by putting the onus on the driver? i.e. if you complain that the ride is too firm, they can just say you must have it on the wrong setting sir! It's funny that they can get it spot on, the old RS4 and R8 are highly regarded and then completely mess it up (RS5)? All the great driver's cars from the past that I can think of were perfect without needing to make infinite adjustments.you will spend a week playing with them and then ignore it
its not needed a well sorted car is a well sorted car, the R8 does not need them (its fine on stock suspension)
maybe they feel it widens the target audience, techno geeks who can bore people down the pub and people who want sports car with a luxo ride?
or they have worked out they can double the price of the car with more tick options
sparks_E39 said:
FreeLitres said:
sparks_E39 said:
If I had an E60 M5 I would make sure it's in the best setting possible, then never touch the settings again. Actually I wouldn't, I'd sell it and buy an E39....
Really? I'll take the E60!!!FreeLitres said:
sparks_E39 said:
FreeLitres said:
sparks_E39 said:
If I had an E60 M5 I would make sure it's in the best setting possible, then never touch the settings again. Actually I wouldn't, I'd sell it and buy an E39....
Really? I'll take the E60!!!
white_goodman said:
OK, so are they trying to cover up the fact that they can't get it right by putting the onus on the driver? i.e. if you complain that the ride is too firm, they can just say you must have it on the wrong setting sir! It's funny that they can get it spot on, the old RS4 and R8 are highly regarded and then completely mess it up (RS5)? All the great driver's cars from the past that I can think of were perfect without needing to make infinite adjustments.
Depends how good the settings are? I haven't driven any high-end stuff recently, but take my last car (Elise) as an example... On Bilstein dampers, on the road, it was sublime - outstanding handling, a ride considerably better than the majority of sportscars and a surprising amount of bog standard hatchbacks.
On the track, and on the limit, it rolled like crazy. Still good fun, and actually a lot more progressive, but not really the quickest.
So because a lot of people track them, they end up on Nitrons or other stiffer suspension.
So to me, that would be a perfect opportunity for a car with a split personality - a button for (a genuine) 'Track mode', where you'd actually benefit from the different settings. When you're finished, back to 'Road', and it makes perfect sense.
Then again, I'd prefer the Elise to be left alone!!! But that's just an example of why there could be a point in it.
pthelazyjourno said:
white_goodman said:
OK, so are they trying to cover up the fact that they can't get it right by putting the onus on the driver? i.e. if you complain that the ride is too firm, they can just say you must have it on the wrong setting sir! It's funny that they can get it spot on, the old RS4 and R8 are highly regarded and then completely mess it up (RS5)? All the great driver's cars from the past that I can think of were perfect without needing to make infinite adjustments.
Depends how good the settings are? I haven't driven any high-end stuff recently, but take my last car (Elise) as an example... On Bilstein dampers, on the road, it was sublime - outstanding handling, a ride considerably better than the majority of sportscars and a surprising amount of bog standard hatchbacks.
On the track, and on the limit, it rolled like crazy. Still good fun, and actually a lot more progressive, but not really the quickest.
So because a lot of people track them, they end up on Nitrons or other stiffer suspension.
So to me, that would be a perfect opportunity for a car with a split personality - a button for (a genuine) 'Track mode', where you'd actually benefit from the different settings. When you're finished, back to 'Road', and it makes perfect sense.
Then again, I'd prefer the Elise to be left alone!!! But that's just an example of why there could be a point in it.
It's cars for the Playstation generation. People today want to have everything 'tweakable', if something can't be fiddled with it's no good.
Actually what seems to be the case all too often is that all the adjustable settings on things (and not just cars, most tech gadgets nowadays are the same) are there to mask the fact that the thing is a bit sh*t and if you can't get something that suits you it's YOUR fault, because 'we've given you 100 different ways of making the sh*t just a little different'.
Actually what seems to be the case all too often is that all the adjustable settings on things (and not just cars, most tech gadgets nowadays are the same) are there to mask the fact that the thing is a bit sh*t and if you can't get something that suits you it's YOUR fault, because 'we've given you 100 different ways of making the sh*t just a little different'.
fat freddie said:
It's cars for the Playstation generation. People today want to have everything 'tweakable', if something can't be fiddled with it's no good.
Actually what seems to be the case all too often is that all the adjustable settings on things (and not just cars, most tech gadgets nowadays are the same) are there to mask the fact that the thing is a bit sh*t and if you can't get something that suits you it's YOUR fault, because 'we've given you 100 different ways of making the sh*t just a little different'.
I think that's what I was trying to say but you expressed it more succintly!Actually what seems to be the case all too often is that all the adjustable settings on things (and not just cars, most tech gadgets nowadays are the same) are there to mask the fact that the thing is a bit sh*t and if you can't get something that suits you it's YOUR fault, because 'we've given you 100 different ways of making the sh*t just a little different'.
pthelazyjourno said:
Depends how good the settings are?
I haven't driven any high-end stuff recently, but take my last car (Elise) as an example... On Bilstein dampers, on the road, it was sublime - outstanding handling, a ride considerably better than the majority of sportscars and a surprising amount of bog standard hatchbacks.
On the track, and on the limit, it rolled like crazy. Still good fun, and actually a lot more progressive, but not really the quickest.
So because a lot of people track them, they end up on Nitrons or other stiffer suspension.
So to me, that would be a perfect opportunity for a car with a split personality - a button for (a genuine) 'Track mode', where you'd actually benefit from the different settings. When you're finished, back to 'Road', and it makes perfect sense.
Then again, I'd prefer the Elise to be left alone!!! But that's just an example of why there could be a point in it.
I see what you mean but I would be happy with a track-biased set-up if I had an Elise and thats what I used it for. I wouldn't expect it to be as comfortable on the road as a German luxury saloon should be! So what if a bit of body roll loses you a couple of seconds per lap? It's only for fun not racing! The only road cars that work in stock spec for me on track are the Elise, 911 Caterham/Westfield or possibly an Evo if it was my only car. A track-prepared old-school hot hatch would also be good fun, although it might be a bit of a shame to mess with a tidy 205/Golf GTi. I've taken my Impreza around the Nurburgring and to be honest it felt a bit soft and heavy but for fast road use, which is what I use it for 99% of the time, it offers a good ride/handling compromise. If I'd just spent £50000 on a near 2-tonne German sports saloon, I wouldn't be unhappy if it was a bit too soft for track use. It's going to eat tyres and brake pads however well it's set-up anyway. I would however be upset that because it has been optimised for the track, it is compromised to drive on the road no matter what settings I have it on! I haven't driven any high-end stuff recently, but take my last car (Elise) as an example... On Bilstein dampers, on the road, it was sublime - outstanding handling, a ride considerably better than the majority of sportscars and a surprising amount of bog standard hatchbacks.
On the track, and on the limit, it rolled like crazy. Still good fun, and actually a lot more progressive, but not really the quickest.
So because a lot of people track them, they end up on Nitrons or other stiffer suspension.
So to me, that would be a perfect opportunity for a car with a split personality - a button for (a genuine) 'Track mode', where you'd actually benefit from the different settings. When you're finished, back to 'Road', and it makes perfect sense.
Then again, I'd prefer the Elise to be left alone!!! But that's just an example of why there could be a point in it.
fat freddie said:
It's cars for the Playstation generation. People today want to have everything 'tweakable', if something can't be fiddled with it's no good.
Remembering the craze for Graphic equalizers on car stereos (before they were known as ICE) and the way most people set them up (which seemed to me was because it looked pretty as opposed to way it sounded - but then most were AM MW) I think it has been around before Playstation generation.white_goodman said:
I'm not against technology, improved safety, ABS and ESP are definitely a good thing but the proliferation of a multitude of driver's settings on new "performance" cars really concerns me. I've just read the first drive on the new Audi RS4 in Evo and it seems that despite having an infinite amount of settings for steering/suspension etc, none of them are actually any good or work in the real world. If I was buying a new performance car, I just want to get in, drive it and enjoy it. I've owned several quick cars (205 GTi, Corrado VR6 and an Impreza WRX currently amongst others) and have never once thought, I wish the suspension was a bit softer/firmer or the throttle response was crisper/less crisp. These cars have just been set up right in the first place. To give an example, the on-paper spec of the E60 M5 is pretty mouthwatering but the number of different settings would do my head in and this is probably why the E39 M5 is so loved on PH. Is it not possible to set a car up so that it is supple, yet well-controlled with well-weighted steering any more. Even my wife's Fiat 500 has a city driving button which turns the steering from very light to feeling completely disconnected. What a joke! Also, why would I want a button that unleashes an extra 100bhp? If I had bought a 500bhp car, I would want the full 500bhp at my disposal all of the time. The only gadgets that I would find worthwhile would be a button to mute the engine if it was particularly loud (don't want to annoy the neighbours when I set off early) and in these times of austerity, a button to optimise economy.
A lot of these so-called performance cars also now have an automatic gearbox. I don't have a problem with AMGs approach (their engines are torquey enough for a slush box not to be a problem) but why fit a high-revving V8 like in the RS4 and then offer no manual option? The old RS4 was a better car for having a manual box and at least you still get the option on an M3.
To be fair, I haven't really experienced driving a car with all these gadgets. Do they actually work or are they just annoying? The closest thing that I have experienced is a DSG-equipped Golf GTI. Great gearbox on a TSI or TDI but for me, the DSG just highlighted turbo-lag that was barely perceptible on the manual version. I don't really care if the gearchange is smoother, 0.01 seconds quicker and 5mpg more economical (not any more economical in my experience) and I couldn't be bothered to use the paddles as ultimately, the gearbox thinks it knows better any way.
Sorry Audi and BMW, up until now, an RS Audi or M BMW would have been right up my street but if the new models are anything to go by, if I had the money then I would be looking at an AMG!
A lot of these so-called performance cars also now have an automatic gearbox. I don't have a problem with AMGs approach (their engines are torquey enough for a slush box not to be a problem) but why fit a high-revving V8 like in the RS4 and then offer no manual option? The old RS4 was a better car for having a manual box and at least you still get the option on an M3.
To be fair, I haven't really experienced driving a car with all these gadgets. Do they actually work or are they just annoying? The closest thing that I have experienced is a DSG-equipped Golf GTI. Great gearbox on a TSI or TDI but for me, the DSG just highlighted turbo-lag that was barely perceptible on the manual version. I don't really care if the gearchange is smoother, 0.01 seconds quicker and 5mpg more economical (not any more economical in my experience) and I couldn't be bothered to use the paddles as ultimately, the gearbox thinks it knows better any way.
Sorry Audi and BMW, up until now, an RS Audi or M BMW would have been right up my street but if the new models are anything to go by, if I had the money then I would be looking at an AMG!
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