What good older cars have no modern equivalents?

[white_goodman]

This thread stems from my current car, a 2004 Impreza WRX Estate, a car which I have kept far longer than I originally planned to, simply becasue it is a difficult car to replace. As an estate car, it is poor in terms of practicality compared to say a Focus Estate but as a more practical high-performance hatchback it is difficult to beat. It can accommodate a large(ish) dog comfortably in the boot and also longer loads than conventional 5 door hatches that I have owned such as Golfs and there is no boot lip to negotiate. Newer, small estates don't have the performance (Fabia vRS may be the closest but not really in the same league) and Mondeos/Passats/Insignias far too big IMO. To compete on performance terms, you need to be looking at Audi A4, BMW 3-Series or Mercedes C-Class estates, which are considerably more expensive. The closest new cars in terms of performance and price would be Golf GTIs/Focus STs but these are just "normal" hatches therefore not quite so practical. Do Misubishi do a fast Lancer hatch/estate? Is it a full-blown Evo version?

This got me thinking that there must be other good older cars that have no modern (new/nearly new)equivalents. I'm not suggesting that it has to come from the same stable. For instance, with a bit of lateral thinking, an Audi Quattro doesn't really have a modern Audi equivalent but an R35 GTR offers similar qualities in a more modern package. Likewise, an Audi R8 could be seen as a modern Honda NSX. A Fiat Coupe Turbo has a lot in common with a mk2 Ford Focus ST in terms of concept(although not as stylish). Here are some more good older cars for which I can think of no modern equivalents.

Alfa Romeo GTV/Brera
Alfa Romeo 147/156 GTA
BMW M1
Ford Capri
Lancia Delta Integrale
Honda CRX
Peugeot 205 GTi (I've been looking for a worthy modern equivalent for years, perhaps a RenaultSport Clio but I'm still not convinced)
Porsche 968
Porsche 928
Rover SD1
Saab 900 Turbo
Subaru Forester Turbo (the new Forester is an altogether different proposition, the Skoda Yeti is probably the closest modern equivalent in spirit but the fastest version only has 160bhp).

Can you think of any worthy modern equivalents to the above and what other good older cars have no new/nearly new equivalents?

[Eighteeteewhy]

I would say the Renault Twingo RS thing is the modern 205gti.

[Baryonyx]

I think it's easier to look within manufacturer's catalogues to see how things have changed.

IE: The Ford Granada and the Vauxhall Senator were great 'luxury' cars back in the day. The Granada has no modern equivalent on Ford's books. Vauxhall's luxury saloon died with the Omega and the Monaro is a poor imitation.

You could argue that the Granada and Senator provided luxury experience and accoutrements for a decent price and there is arguably nothing like that now. Ford and Vauxhall's standard saloons may be bloody massive now but I doubt they are as good to drive as the old ones!

[white_goodman]

Baryonyx said:

I think it's easier to look within manufacturer's catalogues to see how things have changed.

IE: The Ford Granada and the Vauxhall Senator were great 'luxury' cars back in the day. The Granada has no modern equivalent on Ford's books. Vauxhall's luxury saloon died with the Omega and the Monaro is a poor imitation.

You could argue that the Granada and Senator provided luxury experience and accoutrements for a decent price and there is arguably nothing like that now. Ford and Vauxhall's standard saloons may be bloody massive now but I doubt they are as good to drive as the old ones!

Agreed but if someone wanted to update their Granada/Senator/Omega with something that feels similar, what would you recommend? Likewise, in what direction would you point all those Rover 400/45/75 buyers looking to update their cars?

[0a]

The Ford Puma.

Please bring it back with the 1.0 3 cylinder engine and 180bhp

[davepoth]

white_goodman said:

Agreed but if someone wanted to update their Granada/Senator/Omega with something that feels similar, what would you recommend? Likewise, in what direction would you point all those Rover 400/45/75 buyers looking to update their cars?

Most likely the way that all of the company fleets went - "premium" and German. The barges from the mass manufacturers got so big and plush that eventually got to the point where the 5 series/E Class/A6 was about the same size and price, and a hell of a lot more prestigious.

[martin84]

Baryonyx said:

I think it's easier to look within manufacturer's catalogues to see how things have changed.

IE: The Ford Granada and the Vauxhall Senator were great 'luxury' cars back in the day. The Granada has no modern equivalent on Ford's books. Vauxhall's luxury saloon died with the Omega and the Monaro is a poor imitation.

You could argue that the Granada and Senator provided luxury experience and accoutrements for a decent price and there is arguably nothing like that now. Ford and Vauxhall's standard saloons may be bloody massive now but I doubt they are as good to drive as the old ones!

Cars like the Vauxhall Omega and Ford Granada/Scorpio did die pretty quickly when premium German brands became more accessible to the general public. I would say Ford do have a car in that sector though - the Mondeo. When they made the Ka they essentially shifted every other car up a class size. The Fiesta is now about the size of the first Focus, the Focus is ample for most families where as the Mondeo filled that gap 15 years ago.

Considering the price of a new Mondeo you'd think Ford would stick to fully loaded models to provide an alternative choice to the 5 series or something.

[hardcorehobbit]

Decent performance, very practical, no boot lip (IIRC), tuneable to decent pace. Only thing you're missing is the 4x4 element, which you can have on a slower variant if you wish.

[peterbredde]

Honda prelude & toyota celica

[Liquid Knight]

There are no decent new cars compared to old ones. It's all Euroncap this and autocad that, built to a budget than by design.

[SCRR]

Baryonyx said:

Vauxhall's luxury saloon died with the Omega and the Monaro is a poor imitation.

Never, ever, ever compare a Monaro to an Omega.




Ever.

[Gizmoish]

TVR Griffith.

[Triumph Man]

white_goodman said:

Rover SD1

When the Audi A7 was launched, I instantly thought of the Rover SD1, as they are both executive 5 door fastback/hatches with powerful engines. Even the back looks like a German copied a very poor photocopy of a series 1 SD1, imo

[The Flying Ox]

I think you could count pretty much any of the mid-90s Japanese hot hatches/sports cars. Can't think of any contemporaries of stuff like the Celica GT4, MR2 Turbo, RX7, Integra Type R, Sylvia, Fairlady, etc.

[John D.]

Gizmoish said:

TVR Griffith.

TVR full stop.

[ajb85]

Fiat Coupe Turbo.

And there is no such thing as a 'cheap' hot hatch anymore, they're all mega-bucks in my opinion.

[V88Dicky]

SCRR said:

Baryonyx said:

Vauxhall's luxury saloon died with the Omega and the Monaro is a poor imitation.

Never, ever, ever compare a Monaro to an Omega.




Ever.

I thought that's what he said.

[All that jazz]

0a said:

The Ford Puma.

Please bring it back with the 1.0 3 cylinder engine and 180bhp

- And a 6th gear so we're not doing 4100rpm at 80mph.
- And a decent grade of steel + copious amounts of underbody seal for the underbody, sills and arches please.

Not sure about your 1.0 3 cylinder lump though. I think a nice 1.6T with that amount of power would be better. The 123hp NA lump in mine always felt a little lethargic if one fancied a bit of a blast.

[infradig]

white_goodman said:

Agreed but if someone wanted to update their Granada/Senator/Omega with something that feels similar, what would you recommend? Likewise, in what direction would you point all those Rover 400/45/75 buyers looking to update their cars?

You mean large ,rwd, non-premium badge, fast depreciating,loaded with kit, mobile sofa ? I'm looking out of my window at it right now,and Fiat have just relaunched them in the UK with their own engine and presumably build quality to ensure the rock solid residuals that enabled me to buy a two year old one for less than £10k.


Edited to actually put the name of car! Chrysler 300.

Edited by infradig on Monday 23 July 09:22

[Johnnytheboy]

I was thinking in terms of layout - if that's not OT:

Things like the VW Beetle and Hillman Imp.