E36 M3 - easy to live with? Or which other fast saloon?
Discussion
Afternoon all,
After getting to work last night I made the decision that it was time for me to sell my Impreza. I bought it as a stopgap car to cut my expenditure on cars for a few months whilst I was renovating my house (I previously had an MR2 Turbo that was a thirsty beast!). That project is nearly complete and I'm now looking forward to getting myself a new car.
E36 M3's have caught my eye. They seem like a great compromise for me - good performance, manual gearbox, smart interior with leather seats, decent handling. I'd even have a convertible one, a loss of stiffness from the chassis being compensated by roof-down, straight six growl on sunny days. I'd avoid the SMG boxed car.
I'd be using it as my every day car, driving to work and back and doing the shopping in it. How will it take to day to day use? Are they still reasonably sturdy or will it be constantly need little bits and pieces doing to it? The fuel consumption should not be an issue (they even seem relatively frugal for the thrills they can provide), will servicing through an independent cost the earth? Does the VANOS system require inspection on the servicing schedule (I am trying to recall if the E36 M3 needs the valve clearances set at service time).
The other cars I am looking at include Volvo V70 R's, Mercedes C36 AMG's and Audi B5 S4's, though the M3 and the C36 probably lead the pack. That said, there are many more M3's to choose from than their are C36's!
After getting to work last night I made the decision that it was time for me to sell my Impreza. I bought it as a stopgap car to cut my expenditure on cars for a few months whilst I was renovating my house (I previously had an MR2 Turbo that was a thirsty beast!). That project is nearly complete and I'm now looking forward to getting myself a new car.
E36 M3's have caught my eye. They seem like a great compromise for me - good performance, manual gearbox, smart interior with leather seats, decent handling. I'd even have a convertible one, a loss of stiffness from the chassis being compensated by roof-down, straight six growl on sunny days. I'd avoid the SMG boxed car.
I'd be using it as my every day car, driving to work and back and doing the shopping in it. How will it take to day to day use? Are they still reasonably sturdy or will it be constantly need little bits and pieces doing to it? The fuel consumption should not be an issue (they even seem relatively frugal for the thrills they can provide), will servicing through an independent cost the earth? Does the VANOS system require inspection on the servicing schedule (I am trying to recall if the E36 M3 needs the valve clearances set at service time).
The other cars I am looking at include Volvo V70 R's, Mercedes C36 AMG's and Audi B5 S4's, though the M3 and the C36 probably lead the pack. That said, there are many more M3's to choose from than their are C36's!
They're usable day to day for sure, although with their age and the fact that parts can be expensive, and hence previous owners might have scrimped on them, they do require more tlc than your average car.
Valve clearances need checking every inspection 2 (although some places say every inspection) which will be around £600-800. I do it myself and it costs around £150-200 in parts.
Vanos doesn't officially need servicing but it's worth changing the cover bolts and filter every ins 2. Solenoid seals are prone to splitting and performance suffers. Expect some vanos growl as the revs fall, "they all do that sir".
Have a read of this, although it's pretty scary you can avoid most by buying wisely:
http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=573...
My OH had a B5 S4 for a while, I'd prefer a 328i Sport let alone an M3, I just didn't get along with it. Understeer, uncomfortable, over light controls, rubbish economy and ours wasn't particularly reliable. Very tunable though.
Valve clearances need checking every inspection 2 (although some places say every inspection) which will be around £600-800. I do it myself and it costs around £150-200 in parts.
Vanos doesn't officially need servicing but it's worth changing the cover bolts and filter every ins 2. Solenoid seals are prone to splitting and performance suffers. Expect some vanos growl as the revs fall, "they all do that sir".
Have a read of this, although it's pretty scary you can avoid most by buying wisely:
http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=573...
My OH had a B5 S4 for a while, I'd prefer a 328i Sport let alone an M3, I just didn't get along with it. Understeer, uncomfortable, over light controls, rubbish economy and ours wasn't particularly reliable. Very tunable though.
Edited by les3002 on Thursday 26th July 18:27
Edited by les3002 on Thursday 26th July 18:28
les3002 said:
My OH had a B5 S4 for a while, I'd prefer a 328i Sport let alone an M3, I just didn't get along with it. Understeer, uncomfortable, over light controls, rubbish economy and ours wasn't particularly reliable. Very tunable though.
The main issue with the B5 S4 is finding a decent one locally (and I am not really interested in the Avant, depsite my general interest in the V70 R). Great looking car but I've not driven one yet!The M3 sounds like it could be trouble, but you do see enough of them still on the roads so I might just have to be brave!
les3002 said:
Yeah, I should have added, at the price they're at now it's a hard package to beat. I don't plan on changing mine until I can afford a decent E39 M5.
Much prefer mine to the MR2 Turbo I used to have.
I've previously had an MR2 Turbo was well, that was another car I really enjoyed. But it was a bit dicey on the limit or the wrong road surface...I'd probably prefer the M3 overall too!Much prefer mine to the MR2 Turbo I used to have.
Nonuts, your old M3 looks like a cracker! Nice cost breakdown too!
Baryonyx said:
Nonuts, your old M3 looks like a cracker! Nice cost breakdown too!
It was lovely, however it wasn't quite as expensive as it looks as I sold it about 3 months after re-insuring and tax etc. Will be interesting to see how much worse the M5 is running costs wise, I will most likely start to find out next week!
Have a look at my profile, there's a very comprehensive run down on my current E36 M3.
You certainly have to buy carefully, unmodified is the key. Fundamentally they are fairly solid, and I think you've got the right idea-
-Avoid SMG definitely.
-VANOS is a potential problem area, but worst case scenario is £800 for a complete uprated replacement unit, fitted- And then it's done. Made a massive difference to mine, at least.
-Valve clearances apparently need doing every Insp. 1 and 2. As the previous poster said, Insp. 2 is about £550 from a decent Indy, oil service £120 and Insp. 1 somewhere in the middle.
-Bit of rust here and there, the rear arches seem to be the problem area.
-Sensors and the like can be a bit flakey which accounts for 90% of rough running, etc.
-Try out a cab. I'm happy with the compromise because I love having the roof down, but they can be a bit flexy on off-camber roads. Doesn't bother me but might bother some.
-Rooves always tend to need a bit of fettling. Mine's due for a rear window replacement and I think the bars are slightly out of alignment. Worst case scenario is roof replacement at around £600 which isn't bad, but motors, etc can be expensive.
-Don't worry too much about the "M-tax". Some bits like calipers tend to be M-only but lots and lots of stuff is just standard E36. There is a thriving trade in S/H parts on eBay and all sorts of stuff, previously BMW-only, is now available as pattern parts. For instance, my indy was surprised recently when I found a new water pump for £40 from ECP- This used to be a BMW-only £300+ part.
-Wheels are sensibly sized, you can get a set of Michelin PS3s for £400ish fitted from Costco.
Cracking, cracking cars though. Mine's nearly perfect now, and the howl from the Straight Six when you give it beans is epic.
You certainly have to buy carefully, unmodified is the key. Fundamentally they are fairly solid, and I think you've got the right idea-
-Avoid SMG definitely.
-VANOS is a potential problem area, but worst case scenario is £800 for a complete uprated replacement unit, fitted- And then it's done. Made a massive difference to mine, at least.
-Valve clearances apparently need doing every Insp. 1 and 2. As the previous poster said, Insp. 2 is about £550 from a decent Indy, oil service £120 and Insp. 1 somewhere in the middle.
-Bit of rust here and there, the rear arches seem to be the problem area.
-Sensors and the like can be a bit flakey which accounts for 90% of rough running, etc.
-Try out a cab. I'm happy with the compromise because I love having the roof down, but they can be a bit flexy on off-camber roads. Doesn't bother me but might bother some.
-Rooves always tend to need a bit of fettling. Mine's due for a rear window replacement and I think the bars are slightly out of alignment. Worst case scenario is roof replacement at around £600 which isn't bad, but motors, etc can be expensive.
-Don't worry too much about the "M-tax". Some bits like calipers tend to be M-only but lots and lots of stuff is just standard E36. There is a thriving trade in S/H parts on eBay and all sorts of stuff, previously BMW-only, is now available as pattern parts. For instance, my indy was surprised recently when I found a new water pump for £40 from ECP- This used to be a BMW-only £300+ part.
-Wheels are sensibly sized, you can get a set of Michelin PS3s for £400ish fitted from Costco.
Cracking, cracking cars though. Mine's nearly perfect now, and the howl from the Straight Six when you give it beans is epic.
Baryonyx said:
My old MR2 Turbo
Loved ours!Baryonyx said:
the clutch weighed a tonne!
I remember the first time I drove Les' M3 (
)... kangaroo'd down the road... never driven a car with a clutch like it!Although, in his M3's defence, it had a whole host of ailments which added to the clutch-related misery - sticky throttle linkage, smaller-than-standard slave cylinder, and a rather dodgy quick-shift.
It is much, much, much
As Les probably said, make sure you don't buy a lemon-one - they need lots of tlc to make them worthwhile, but they're SO worth it.
Some very good points above re: buying, however the only point I would disagree with is avoiding the modified ones,I find that most owners who modify their cars are true enthusiasts, not just people who like a particular car.
The vanos on the 3.0 cars is not likely to cause too much trouble, the twin vanos on the evo may do, but tbh in my experience it is a massively over hyped internet myth. Yes some do go wrong but nowhere near as much as the net would have you believe!!
I would test drive one first though, they suit some but I found mine to be the most boring "performance" car I have ever owned. It just feels like a 3 series imo but in a fancy frock. However the vaders are possibly the best oem seats fitted to a car I have experienced other than ford RS recaro's, just dont get leather as any form of spirited driving will have you sliding into the passenger seat
Edit, ignore the vader comment unless they have been retro fitted.
The vanos on the 3.0 cars is not likely to cause too much trouble, the twin vanos on the evo may do, but tbh in my experience it is a massively over hyped internet myth. Yes some do go wrong but nowhere near as much as the net would have you believe!!
I would test drive one first though, they suit some but I found mine to be the most boring "performance" car I have ever owned. It just feels like a 3 series imo but in a fancy frock. However the vaders are possibly the best oem seats fitted to a car I have experienced other than ford RS recaro's, just dont get leather as any form of spirited driving will have you sliding into the passenger seat
Edit, ignore the vader comment unless they have been retro fitted.
Personally, I'd avoid the cab. Doesn't half take the shine off an incredibly well balanced car. Fair bit of scuttle shake and the interiors don't seem as well screwed together and tend to creak a bit. This could just be down to the individual car, I think build quality on all E36s varies wildly.
Awesome value now though. I think the slightly chavvy image has been and gone, and the purists now appreciate the unmolested ones. I'd gladly have a super-original coupe, toned down and standard, without the rear spoiler
Awesome value now though. I think the slightly chavvy image has been and gone, and the purists now appreciate the unmolested ones. I'd gladly have a super-original coupe, toned down and standard, without the rear spoiler
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2012...
That's a lovely looking, original saloon, owned for 14 years! Albeit not an Evo, however the 3.0s have a claimed 35mpg combined, and 25 on the Evo!
That's a lovely looking, original saloon, owned for 14 years! Albeit not an Evo, however the 3.0s have a claimed 35mpg combined, and 25 on the Evo!
chris7676 said:
WHY unmodified ?
Mine had aftermarket suspension and was much better than your average unmodified car that needs work and drives a bit funny...
Anyway, easy cars to live with.
Fair comment, and to be honest I'm thinking about going to Bilstein shocks later this year. My point was more aimed at the Angel Eye brigade, signs of Barry-ing. I ignored this at my peril with my first M3...Mine had aftermarket suspension and was much better than your average unmodified car that needs work and drives a bit funny...
Anyway, easy cars to live with.
carreauchompeur said:
Fair comment, and to be honest I'm thinking about going to Bilstein shocks later this year. My point was more aimed at the Angel Eye brigade, signs of Barry-ing. I ignored this at my peril with my first M3...
Bilstein were OEM for some of the e36 M3s from what I understood, not sure whether it was a specific year or model though.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff