LSD in a FWD car
Discussion
So... I think I know the theory about how LSD's work. Well, I *think* so.
Let's say, hypothetically, that I'm interested in one of these. (Bear with me, I know there's not a lot of love for these compared to an older version but I'm a bit tempted... and it's a good way of looking at FWD cars with and without an LSD in the same model.)
2010 Model Year and beyond come with an LSD, and a few had it as an optional extra beforehand.
I won't be tuning it for more power and while I'll be having fun I won't be pushing its extreme limits on the road. I won't be taking it onto a track.
So... is there any point in seeking this sort of LSD out for a FWD road car? (Not necessarily in Hondas, but in general?) Would it make a difference to the fun I have? Other than cost to purchase, are there any downsides?
Or should I just forget about FWD cars and lust after a Z4 coupé again?
Let's say, hypothetically, that I'm interested in one of these. (Bear with me, I know there's not a lot of love for these compared to an older version but I'm a bit tempted... and it's a good way of looking at FWD cars with and without an LSD in the same model.)
2010 Model Year and beyond come with an LSD, and a few had it as an optional extra beforehand.
I won't be tuning it for more power and while I'll be having fun I won't be pushing its extreme limits on the road. I won't be taking it onto a track.
So... is there any point in seeking this sort of LSD out for a FWD road car? (Not necessarily in Hondas, but in general?) Would it make a difference to the fun I have? Other than cost to purchase, are there any downsides?
Or should I just forget about FWD cars and lust after a Z4 coupé again?
Emphatically yes. Fast FWD is better with an LSD. I had an EG6 Civic VTi with a quaife ATB, and then a clutch type followed by torsen in my Charade Turbo.
The LSD in that honda will be a lifetime fit item I should imagine, so no maintenance other than the usual gearbox oil changes as per the service schedule.
The LSD in that honda will be a lifetime fit item I should imagine, so no maintenance other than the usual gearbox oil changes as per the service schedule.
NiceCupOfTea said:
Some of the big power Saab boys have fitted LSDs and reckon it's a revelation, really helps get the power down and reduces torque steer. Whether you need one in a 200bhp hot hatch, though...
That's exactly what I'm wondering. I can see the point at high power outputs. However, if I got one then it'd be highly unlikely I'd be doing anything to modify it. My 200bhp Octavia doesn't fall off the road for lack of one... but occasionally I find a lack of traction exiting a T junction in the wet. I'm not sure what difference I'd feel on the move though?Marf said:
Emphatically yes. Fast FWD is better with an LSD. I had an EG6 Civic VTi with a quaife ATB, and then a clutch type followed by torsen in my Charade Turbo.
The LSD in that honda will be a lifetime fit item I should imagine, so no maintenance other than the usual gearbox oil changes as per the service schedule.
Thanks for the input. Do you know what type of LSD Honda's item is? I'm struggling to find info- though having never driven a FWD car with an LSD, it's purely theoretical interest at this point.The LSD in that honda will be a lifetime fit item I should imagine, so no maintenance other than the usual gearbox oil changes as per the service schedule.
blearyeyedboy said:
Thanks for the input. Do you know what type of LSD Honda's item is?
It'll be a Torsen.blearyeyedboy said:
I'm not sure what difference I'd feel on the move though?
The front end just feels more connected to the road, more pointy, especially under throttle. You can really nail it through a corner and feel the LSD pull you through rather than just understeering the power away when you open the taps. With the Torsen style diff you don't really feel it there till it's doing its thing, they lock and unlock very smoothly. Both my Civic and my Charade, with their meagre 160hp each benefited in my view from the diff being there. It just feels better when you're making progress.
As a dealer fit option, for me it's a no brainer. They're not exactly the most straightforward things to fit.
Edited by Marf on Thursday 2nd August 22:01
So, one concern I was reading about was:
(outside wheel takes a longer path) --> (LSD mistakes this for slip) --> (inside wheel gets more traction and induces understeer)
Presumably that's not the experience of the above posters. (Thanks, that helps me feel less worried.)
I think the fuel costs on an Evo would cripple me- it would be a daily driver.
(outside wheel takes a longer path) --> (LSD mistakes this for slip) --> (inside wheel gets more traction and induces understeer)
Presumably that's not the experience of the above posters. (Thanks, that helps me feel less worried.)
I think the fuel costs on an Evo would cripple me- it would be a daily driver.
Having owned an FN2, I'd say having LSD would have significantly improved the handling in the wet. Without it would understeer too easily under power when cornering.
Mine had some sort of 'electronic' diff which would brake the spinning wheel but would also cut the power slightly. It helped improve the traction in snow but was a bit unpredictable, and would cause the entire front end to dive towards the verge due to the road camber
... could I suggest a Megane R26? These came with an LSD
Mine had some sort of 'electronic' diff which would brake the spinning wheel but would also cut the power slightly. It helped improve the traction in snow but was a bit unpredictable, and would cause the entire front end to dive towards the verge due to the road camber
... could I suggest a Megane R26? These came with an LSD
Edited by MarkRSi on Thursday 2nd August 23:09
blearyeyedboy said:
So, one concern I was reading about was:
(outside wheel takes a longer path) --> (LSD mistakes this for slip) --> (inside wheel gets more traction and induces understeer)
Presumably that's not the experience of the above posters. (Thanks, that helps me feel less worried.)
I think the fuel costs on an Evo would cripple me- it would be a daily driver.
It's "limited" slip diff, not "Zero" slip diff.(outside wheel takes a longer path) --> (LSD mistakes this for slip) --> (inside wheel gets more traction and induces understeer)
Presumably that's not the experience of the above posters. (Thanks, that helps me feel less worried.)
I think the fuel costs on an Evo would cripple me- it would be a daily driver.
They stop you bleeding power away and keep you on track.
If it's a choice of with or without, go with.
I fitted a helical diff to a Hyundai coupe v6 partly out of interest to see what it would do. (I didn’t get the memo about the curious cat).
It does make a difference, particularly reducing understeer on the track. On the road you can tell it’s there, if for no other reason that it gives the steering wheel a vicious self centre action under power. It does improve traction but it’s not magic, you just spin both wheels instead and I wouldn’t describe the driving experience as a revelation, its better but it’s still the same car.
It does make a difference, particularly reducing understeer on the track. On the road you can tell it’s there, if for no other reason that it gives the steering wheel a vicious self centre action under power. It does improve traction but it’s not magic, you just spin both wheels instead and I wouldn’t describe the driving experience as a revelation, its better but it’s still the same car.
MarkRSi said:
... could I suggest and Megane R26? These came with an LSD
It might be a tad unfair on Renault, but my first car was a base-level Mk 1 Megane and after I spent £150/month on average fixing the 'orrible thing over 2 years, a steering failure damn nearly killed me(!).In fairness to Renault, all manufacturers have Friday afternoon examples and I have friends who swore by theirs. But I just swore *at* mine.
I just couldn't buy another Megane, no matter that it has as little relation to my original car as a Focus does to a Mk2 Escort.
I should imagine it would make a lot of difference. My ibiza has a meagre 130bhp (and some torques due to being a tdi) and coming off roundabouts or exiting tighter bends, especially in the wet, it just spins the inside wheel.
I can see the logic behind the people saying an LSD will just pull you straight on, but on an open diff, when one wheel spins up, usually the inside one, the outside is left with no power. So the power is effectively driving you the opposite way the wheels are turning!
And while it wont magically 'Add' traction, it will mean that one wheel is never trying to cope with the engines full output, only a little over half of it! So will mean that the traction available is more usable.
I can see the logic behind the people saying an LSD will just pull you straight on, but on an open diff, when one wheel spins up, usually the inside one, the outside is left with no power. So the power is effectively driving you the opposite way the wheels are turning!
And while it wont magically 'Add' traction, it will mean that one wheel is never trying to cope with the engines full output, only a little over half of it! So will mean that the traction available is more usable.
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