Are bad drivers actually better than good ones?
Discussion
Something that occurred to me recently whilst following something dreary from Nissan at about 2/3 the speed limit. This guy was never going to go anywhere near the limits of his car or the road he was on. He was leaving massive gaps between him and the car in front, and was waiting for a 1/4 mile gap in traffic before pulling out. It struck me that he'll probably never ever crash because the safety margins he was giving himself were huge and he would take absolutely no risks.
Now I know the standard response is "ah but they hold other drivers up, who then take risks overtaking", and I sympathies with that, but that's not his fault, that's the other driver's fault. If someone gets frustrated and takes a chance on an overtake then that is surely their responsibility and theirs alone.
Thing is, we read all the time on PH about self styled expert drivers "hooning" and turning the traction control off because it "allows them to slide the car around a bit".
And we've got a thread a mile long full of "ooh look at my smashed up Porsche/Evo/Scooby/GTR/S2000/whatever".
So you've got to ask, given that, ultimately, safety (for themselves and for other road users) surely has to be the most important over-riding criteria by which we judge any public road user, who's really safer/better behind the wheel? Mr. Dab Of Oppo, or Mr. White Knuckle I'm So Scared I'm Going To Drive Slower And Leave Big Gaps?
Now I know the standard response is "ah but they hold other drivers up, who then take risks overtaking", and I sympathies with that, but that's not his fault, that's the other driver's fault. If someone gets frustrated and takes a chance on an overtake then that is surely their responsibility and theirs alone.
Thing is, we read all the time on PH about self styled expert drivers "hooning" and turning the traction control off because it "allows them to slide the car around a bit".
And we've got a thread a mile long full of "ooh look at my smashed up Porsche/Evo/Scooby/GTR/S2000/whatever".
So you've got to ask, given that, ultimately, safety (for themselves and for other road users) surely has to be the most important over-riding criteria by which we judge any public road user, who's really safer/better behind the wheel? Mr. Dab Of Oppo, or Mr. White Knuckle I'm So Scared I'm Going To Drive Slower And Leave Big Gaps?
Ari said:
Something that occurred to me recently whilst following something dreary from Nissan at about 2/3 the speed limit. This guy was never going to go anywhere near the limits of his car or the road he was on. He was leaving massive gaps between him and the car in front, and was waiting for a 1/4 mile gap in traffic before pulling out. It struck me that he'll probably never ever crash because the safety margins he was giving himself were huge and he would take absolutely no risks.
Now I know the standard response is "ah but they hold other drivers up, who then take risks overtaking", and I sympathies with that, but that's not his fault, that's the other driver's fault. If someone gets frustrated and takes a chance on an overtake then that is surely their responsibility and theirs alone.
Thing is, we read all the time on PH about self styled expert drivers "hooning" and turning the traction control off because it "allows them to slide the car around a bit".
And we've got a thread a mile long full of "ooh look at my smashed up Porsche/Evo/Scooby/GTR/S2000/whatever".
So you've got to ask, given that, ultimately, safety (for themselves and for other road users) surely has to be the most important over-riding criteria by which we judge any public road user, who's really safer/better behind the wheel? Mr. Dab Of Oppo, or Mr. White Knuckle I'm So Scared I'm Going To Drive Slower And Leave Big Gaps?
If you define being a 'bad driver' as someone who drives slowly with lots of safety margin, I wouldn't be looking to criticize others.Now I know the standard response is "ah but they hold other drivers up, who then take risks overtaking", and I sympathies with that, but that's not his fault, that's the other driver's fault. If someone gets frustrated and takes a chance on an overtake then that is surely their responsibility and theirs alone.
Thing is, we read all the time on PH about self styled expert drivers "hooning" and turning the traction control off because it "allows them to slide the car around a bit".
And we've got a thread a mile long full of "ooh look at my smashed up Porsche/Evo/Scooby/GTR/S2000/whatever".
So you've got to ask, given that, ultimately, safety (for themselves and for other road users) surely has to be the most important over-riding criteria by which we judge any public road user, who's really safer/better behind the wheel? Mr. Dab Of Oppo, or Mr. White Knuckle I'm So Scared I'm Going To Drive Slower And Leave Big Gaps?
And the type of people I know who are enthusiastic about cars generally drive like pillocks because they're "good at it". Quite a few of them have PH stickers to indicate their advanced level of ability.
I would rather follow a frustratingly slow drive than be followed by an enthusiast.
I would rather follow a frustratingly slow drive than be followed by an enthusiast.
HustleRussell said:
Bringing some statistics to the party;
Slow, steady drivers probably do fewer miles than those who 'make progress'. I fully expect the while your steady, cautious driver is less likely to crash, the seasoned high-mile driver probably averages a higher number of miles per crash.
Statistics usually involve numbers of some type Slow, steady drivers probably do fewer miles than those who 'make progress'. I fully expect the while your steady, cautious driver is less likely to crash, the seasoned high-mile driver probably averages a higher number of miles per crash.
Monkeylegend said:
HustleRussell said:
Bringing some statistics to the party;
Slow, steady drivers probably do fewer miles than those who 'make progress'. I fully expect the while your steady, cautious driver is less likely to crash, the seasoned high-mile driver probably averages a higher number of miles per crash.
Statistics usually involve numbers of some type Slow, steady drivers probably do fewer miles than those who 'make progress'. I fully expect the while your steady, cautious driver is less likely to crash, the seasoned high-mile driver probably averages a higher number of miles per crash.
Ari said:
Something that occurred to me recently whilst following something dreary from Nissan at about 2/3 the speed limit. This guy was never going to go anywhere near the limits of his car or the road he was on. He was leaving massive gaps between him and the car in front, and was waiting for a 1/4 mile gap in traffic before pulling out. It struck me that he'll probably never ever crash because the safety margins he was giving himself were huge and he would take absolutely no risks.
Now I know the standard response is "ah but they hold other drivers up, who then take risks overtaking", and I sympathies with that, but that's not his fault, that's the other driver's fault. If someone gets frustrated and takes a chance on an overtake then that is surely their responsibility and theirs alone.
Thing is, we read all the time on PH about self styled expert drivers "hooning" and turning the traction control off because it "allows them to slide the car around a bit".
And we've got a thread a mile long full of "ooh look at my smashed up Porsche/Evo/Scooby/GTR/S2000/whatever".
So you've got to ask, given that, ultimately, safety (for themselves and for other road users) surely has to be the most important over-riding criteria by which we judge any public road user, who's really safer/better behind the wheel? Mr. Dab Of Oppo, or Mr. White Knuckle I'm So Scared I'm Going To Drive Slower And Leave Big Gaps?
This post is utter drivel. Are you from BRAKE or something?Now I know the standard response is "ah but they hold other drivers up, who then take risks overtaking", and I sympathies with that, but that's not his fault, that's the other driver's fault. If someone gets frustrated and takes a chance on an overtake then that is surely their responsibility and theirs alone.
Thing is, we read all the time on PH about self styled expert drivers "hooning" and turning the traction control off because it "allows them to slide the car around a bit".
And we've got a thread a mile long full of "ooh look at my smashed up Porsche/Evo/Scooby/GTR/S2000/whatever".
So you've got to ask, given that, ultimately, safety (for themselves and for other road users) surely has to be the most important over-riding criteria by which we judge any public road user, who's really safer/better behind the wheel? Mr. Dab Of Oppo, or Mr. White Knuckle I'm So Scared I'm Going To Drive Slower And Leave Big Gaps?
The sort of person described by the op is a bigger danger and risk than the "bad" driver. They will be exceptionally timid and will spend a lot of time second guessing themselves and everyone else.
They will also most likely have a very low grasp of the rules of the road or road etiquette.
They are a liability and they should be removed from the road.
I strongly suspect the majority of accidents are caused by people like this though they may not actually be involved personally.
They will also most likely have a very low grasp of the rules of the road or road etiquette.
They are a liability and they should be removed from the road.
I strongly suspect the majority of accidents are caused by people like this though they may not actually be involved personally.
Engineer1 said:
Just seen the Confused dot com advert that was advertising the new "clever" box that records how well you drive, seemingly implying that sticking to the limits and not accelerating braking or cornering hard is good safe driving.
Don't confuse "safe driving" with "lower aggregate payout costs". The insurers don't care about safety, they care about costs of claims they have to pay out. Driving below the speed limit, and not cornering, accelerating or braking hard would tend, I guess, to be congruent with lower claim costs.
Simonium said:
I would rather follow a frustratingly slow drive than be followed by an enthusiast.
I wouldn't. It's easier to let a fast car behind go past than get past a slow car against their will. On the OP's thought, an anology would be good cook being someone who sticks to cooking easy meals.
Johnnytheboy said:
I wouldn't. It's easier to let a fast car behind go past than get past a slow car against their will.
On the OP's thought, an anology would be good cook being someone who sticks to cooking easy meals.
On roads that are suitable I entirely agree. There aren't that many in my vicinity! On the OP's thought, an anology would be good cook being someone who sticks to cooking easy meals.
I have seen what happens when one of these so called 'safe' drivers makes an error of judgement.
I saw one make a very late decision to come off a roundabout and go up a slip road to the M25, losing control and crashing into a barrier.
I saw another who decided to come off a slip road from the North Circular road far too late and using the beginning of the armco as a ramp, raising his car up, but luckily due to the very slow, 'safe' speed he was travelling at, it didn't actually flip the car and cause a much worse accident.
I saw one make a very late decision to come off a roundabout and go up a slip road to the M25, losing control and crashing into a barrier.
I saw another who decided to come off a slip road from the North Circular road far too late and using the beginning of the armco as a ramp, raising his car up, but luckily due to the very slow, 'safe' speed he was travelling at, it didn't actually flip the car and cause a much worse accident.
TallbutBuxomly said:
I strongly suspect the majority of accidents are caused by people like this though they may not actually be involved personally.
^ This ^ or whatever the new +1 is 
People who are exceptionally slow/timid on the roads are a hazard because they are not actually concerned with planning ahead, anticipation, acute observation or any other element of 'good driving'. They are simply protecting themselves.
'Good' driving is (IMHO) having a level of awareness not just for your own safety, but how you are driving impacts all the other users we share the roads with. Although I can understand the OP's argument, the problem with the driver he has described is they are likely to be so concerned with their own safety they are not accurately reading the road/conditions/traffic etc, they are simply avoiding anything and everything they perceive as Danger, which is very different and quite often actually relatively hazardous to those around them.
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