How do these scammers successfully drain our bank accounts?
Discussion
I have a car up for sale on a website and I get a text from this guy with a UK number asking me to send him an email to tell him when he can see the car. Seems he is a guy who is supposedly 'on a rig as a marine engineer', wanting to buy my car unseen, and can I send him more info etc. I have bought cars unseen before so it didn't seem strange, so I replied.
He then asks me to give him the following details (his words):
Are you the first owner:
Your PayPal e-Mail Address:
full name:
What is your reason for selling it?
Address:
Last Price:
As the car is not in the UK, he then says he wants to pay for it to be shipped to the UK. When I suggest he looks at Autotrader in the UK to buy his car, as I offer that it would be far easier and cheaper for him, he says he 'only likes my car' and wants to transfer the money ASAP.
He then sent a couple of very insistent emails needing to put the cash ASAP into my account, after which I told him that I thought he was a m*nging tw*t.
The whole time though I was wondering what the minimum information that they need to be enough to withdraw funds. I mean, with my address and paypal's email can he really get anything? Do they have some way of getting the passwords with this info?
I transfer money internationally all the time and it is not at all straightforward. Even if I gave him my bank details for him to'deposit' cash, how can he possibly get anything out of my account without the bank's needing personal authorisation to confirm the transaction? Or is there a procedure that they use to move money around that does not need my personal authorization that I don't know about? Even with net banking you need the OTP dongle code on each transaction and a Swift done outside of net banking needs all sorts of paperwork.
Anyone had this done to them and if so how did they do it?
He then asks me to give him the following details (his words):
Are you the first owner:
Your PayPal e-Mail Address:
full name:
What is your reason for selling it?
Address:
Last Price:
As the car is not in the UK, he then says he wants to pay for it to be shipped to the UK. When I suggest he looks at Autotrader in the UK to buy his car, as I offer that it would be far easier and cheaper for him, he says he 'only likes my car' and wants to transfer the money ASAP.
He then sent a couple of very insistent emails needing to put the cash ASAP into my account, after which I told him that I thought he was a m*nging tw*t.
The whole time though I was wondering what the minimum information that they need to be enough to withdraw funds. I mean, with my address and paypal's email can he really get anything? Do they have some way of getting the passwords with this info?
I transfer money internationally all the time and it is not at all straightforward. Even if I gave him my bank details for him to'deposit' cash, how can he possibly get anything out of my account without the bank's needing personal authorisation to confirm the transaction? Or is there a procedure that they use to move money around that does not need my personal authorization that I don't know about? Even with net banking you need the OTP dongle code on each transaction and a Swift done outside of net banking needs all sorts of paperwork.
Anyone had this done to them and if so how did they do it?
jazzdude said:
Seems he is a guy who is supposedly 'on a rig as a marine engineer', wanting to buy my car unseen, and can I send him more info etc. I have bought cars unseen before so it didn't seem strange, so I replied.
Seriously? Has Cyprus only just been connected to the internet?jazzdude said:
Anyone had this done to them and if so how did they do it?
They don't drain your account etc. They over-pay to cover the shipping cost and then ask you transfer the shipping payment to someone else, probably by Western Union. You do that and then their original payment to you is recalled.jazzdude said:
Even if I gave him my bank details for him to'deposit' cash, how can he possibly get anything out of my account without the bank's needing personal authorisation to confirm the transaction? Or is there a procedure that they use to move money around that does not need my personal authorization that I don't know about? Even with net banking you need the OTP dongle code on each transaction and a Swift done outside of net banking needs all sorts of paperwork.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2008/jan/07/person...Deva Link said:
They don't drain your account etc. They over-pay to cover the shipping cost and then ask you transfer the shipping payment to someone else, probably by Western Union. You do that and then their original payment to you is recalled.
So you agree say 10K plus 1K shipping, he transfers 11K into your account. Why would I then have to send 1K to someone else?So what guarantee does he have that I take the deposit and do not deliver the car?
Edited by jazzdude on Thursday 9th August 13:49
jazzdude said:
So you agree say 10K plus 1K shipping, he transfers 11K into your account. Why would I then have to send 1K to someone else?
He'll ask you to do it to cover the shipping charge.jazzdude said:
So what guarantee does he have that I take the deposit and do not deliver the car?
The car never changes hands in these scams. All they're after is the £1K or so 'shipping' cost.This is probably what was being attempted in your case: http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2011/oct/29/paypal...
jazzdude said:
Do people really take cars to shipping agents following Paypal transactions?
Are you being deliberately daft?The car doesn't go anywhere. It's a scam to get money. Like the one I linked to, once someone has made one payment, the scammers try and get you to pay more and more. Then when the payment to you turns out to have never happened, or it bounces, you're thousands of pounds out of pocket.
Deva Link said:
This is probably what was being attempted in your case: http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2011/oct/29/paypal...
That sounds just like the stuff he said. You learn something new everyday.But what I don't understand is how someone would agree to sell the car then agree to pay someone the shipping cost so that they can get the money back... bizarre.
jazzdude said:
But what I don't understand is how someone would agree to sell the car then agree to pay someone the shipping cost so that they can get the money back... bizarre.
..because they've had a (fake) email from Paypal telling them the buyer has transferred the money to them.It used to happen a lot with foreign bank drafts. People get them, think everything is fine, pay out the shipping, and sometimes much more, fee, then the draft is rejected by the issuing bank, sometimes weeks later.
Edited by Deva Link on Thursday 9th August 14:07
Thank you for deleting your other post. I was about the reply that it was somewhat ironic, as you're the one who did actually reply to the oil rig based 'buyer'! 
Although that's not quite as daft as the story I linked to where the caravan seller sent money to Malaysia, apparently never thinking that was odd.
Although that's not quite as daft as the story I linked to where the caravan seller sent money to Malaysia, apparently never thinking that was odd.
Deva Link said:
Seriously? Has Cyprus only just been connected to the internet?Deva Link said:
Are you being deliberately daft?
Although your contribution was welcome, your 'wit' needs some fine tuning as it is coming across as offensive, mate.And for the record, when I first replied it was from a simple text stating that he wanted more info about the car. Sent texts like that to sellers before myself.
It was later that the cock and bull story appeared, which sparked my interest.
Edited by jazzdude on Thursday 9th August 14:17
LOL! I remember receiving the "marine engineer, gift for son" email when I was selling my sl. I was intrigued as I don't think I've ever come across a single "marine engineer" in my life!
you should have replied back with some questions like "I'm just curious, what is the maximum recommended gas inlet temperature to run a cast iron extended gill economiser" and see the response!
you should have replied back with some questions like "I'm just curious, what is the maximum recommended gas inlet temperature to run a cast iron extended gill economiser" and see the response!
PUA said:
LOL! I remember receiving the "marine engineer, gift for son" email when I was selling my sl. I was intrigued as I don't think I've ever come across a single "marine engineer" in my life!
you should have replied back with some questions like "I'm just curious, what is the maximum recommended gas inlet temperature to run a cast iron extended gill economiser" and see the response!
What would be the correct answer, just so we know for future. you should have replied back with some questions like "I'm just curious, what is the maximum recommended gas inlet temperature to run a cast iron extended gill economiser" and see the response!
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