Is diesel here to stay or will petrol make a comeback?
Discussion
Hi, the regular diesel vs petrol bashing thread made me wonder.
It's not that long ago that diesel was purely an economy choice, definitely no more than 10-15 years ago. I don't mean that as a criticism, but there was no reason to buy a diesel other than economy when I went out to buy my first car in 1997. Now with government tax incentives, turbo diesel performance, more refined engines due to DMFs etc, diesels are now quick, quiet and economical as long as they're working well.
Personally I own both. But I do wonder, will petrol manage to make a comeback or is the future diesel until oil runs out and the world goes all mad max? (must remember to pick up a v8 before that happens).
It's not that long ago that diesel was purely an economy choice, definitely no more than 10-15 years ago. I don't mean that as a criticism, but there was no reason to buy a diesel other than economy when I went out to buy my first car in 1997. Now with government tax incentives, turbo diesel performance, more refined engines due to DMFs etc, diesels are now quick, quiet and economical as long as they're working well.
Personally I own both. But I do wonder, will petrol manage to make a comeback or is the future diesel until oil runs out and the world goes all mad max? (must remember to pick up a v8 before that happens).
Good points and spot on to where I'm coming from on this. I've had new ford ecoboosts (125ps) twice as a courtesy car and have driven about 200 miles over mixed country lanes and motorways in them. I've also owned a 1.6 petrol focus so I can easily compare the two. The new ecoboost is a better engine for the car but it's not a big jump. Compared to the diesels, I've owned a 1.8 tdci and I'd say they're about the same in terms of performance, the petrol wins hands down on refinement and the diesel does the same on economy despite what ford say.
So overall petrol is back in the running for the average family car, but once you factor in tax and fuel costs the government has decided you will buy a diesel.
So overall petrol is back in the running for the average family car, but once you factor in tax and fuel costs the government has decided you will buy a diesel.
V88Dicky said:
My weekly total works mileage is 350 miles. For this I use a 2.0 petrol that cost me £1900 to buy, and it does, without fail, 42-45 mpg per week. I cannot imagine any circumstance when I would require a diesel.
It's also cheap and easy to (self) maintain. Am I doing something wrong?
I do the same miles per week for work and get that mpg out of my tdi so I think your doing great at that. I test drove the 2.0 petrol Ibiza sport before I got mine and it really had to be rev'ed hard to get it to go meaning if I didn't want to granny it everywhere the mpg was shocking. I went for the diesel it's got better power for overtakes on the motor way and the lazy driving is nice.It's also cheap and easy to (self) maintain. Am I doing something wrong?
Diesel is here to stay IMO. However, petrol is making a bit of a comeback.
New small diesel engines seem to be very highly stressed with reliability, which used to be one of the selling points of diesel, becoming an issue. Lots of small independent dealers will not touch a small diesel engined car that is out of manufactures warranty, if they take one in p/x it more than likely has issues, usually serious, meaning its sent straight to auction.
For a road car i do like riding the wave of torque that you get from a modern turbo diesel which kind of suits my lazy style of driving. Something that you can't really do in a n/a petrol engine in your average eurobox.
New small diesel engines seem to be very highly stressed with reliability, which used to be one of the selling points of diesel, becoming an issue. Lots of small independent dealers will not touch a small diesel engined car that is out of manufactures warranty, if they take one in p/x it more than likely has issues, usually serious, meaning its sent straight to auction.
For a road car i do like riding the wave of torque that you get from a modern turbo diesel which kind of suits my lazy style of driving. Something that you can't really do in a n/a petrol engine in your average eurobox.
craig-A said:
Diesel is here to stay IMO. However, petrol is making a bit of a comeback.
New small diesel engines seem to be very highly stressed with reliability, which used to be one of the selling points of diesel, becoming an issue. Lots of small independent dealers will not touch a small diesel engined car that is out of manufactures warranty, if they take one in p/x it more than likely has issues, usually serious, meaning its sent straight to auction.
For a road car i do like riding the wave of torque that you get from a modern turbo diesel which kind of suits my lazy style of driving. Something that you can't really do in a n/a petrol engine in your average eurobox.
Me to love the torque may feel faster than it is but still like it. My type r was more fun but used to end up driving it to fast and got 25 mpg most of the time the Cupra was better if you drove it off the boost would like to drive one of the new 1.0 1.2 turbo petrols they sound like the best of both.New small diesel engines seem to be very highly stressed with reliability, which used to be one of the selling points of diesel, becoming an issue. Lots of small independent dealers will not touch a small diesel engined car that is out of manufactures warranty, if they take one in p/x it more than likely has issues, usually serious, meaning its sent straight to auction.
For a road car i do like riding the wave of torque that you get from a modern turbo diesel which kind of suits my lazy style of driving. Something that you can't really do in a n/a petrol engine in your average eurobox.
The wild card is plug-in hybrids and pure EVs
They will start to take a large lump of the market
They will replace the diesel second car in two car families where the daily milage is about 8 miles
The diesel saloon will continue to be the choice for large cars
And the petrol powered corsa will still be there for the driving gods who simply must drive a petrol car
They will start to take a large lump of the market
They will replace the diesel second car in two car families where the daily milage is about 8 miles
The diesel saloon will continue to be the choice for large cars
And the petrol powered corsa will still be there for the driving gods who simply must drive a petrol car
motorwaycruiser said:
Good points and spot on to where I'm coming from on this. I've had new ford ecoboosts (125ps) twice as a courtesy car and have driven about 200 miles over mixed country lanes and motorways in them. I've also owned a 1.6 petrol focus so I can easily compare the two. The new ecoboost is a better engine for the car but it's not a big jump. Compared to the diesels, I've owned a 1.8 tdci and I'd say they're about the same in terms of performance, the petrol wins hands down on refinement and the diesel does the same on economy despite what ford say.
So overall petrol is back in the running for the average family car, but once you factor in tax and fuel costs the government has decided you will buy a diesel.
So overall petrol is back in the running for the average family car, but once you factor in tax and fuel costs the government has decided you will buy a diesel.
Not so much so now. My company pays a car allowance plus the hmrc recommend mileage rate. I think based on the fact a lot of people have switched to diesel, the government tax revenue is heading down, they have now made it more favourable to make the switch back to petrol. For example
Current 1.9 tdi = 15ppm
2.0 litre or bigger tdi = 18ppm
2.0 litre or bigger petrol = 26ppm
So, the switch for me from vag tdi to, say a 330i would net 11ppm increase. I would lose 15mpg on the switch but have. A much nicer car. I'm sure there are petrol cars that would net me the top rate of mileage that would achieve even better economy and thus increase the arguement for petrol.
It will be interesting to see what they do on September the 1st when they review the rate again.
thinfourth2 said:
The wild card is plug-in hybrids and pure EVs
They will start to take a large lump of the market
They will replace the diesel second car in two car families where the daily milage is about 8 miles
The diesel saloon will continue to be the choice for large cars
And the petrol powered corsa will still be there for the driving gods who simply must drive a petrol car
I agree with thisThey will start to take a large lump of the market
They will replace the diesel second car in two car families where the daily milage is about 8 miles
The diesel saloon will continue to be the choice for large cars
And the petrol powered corsa will still be there for the driving gods who simply must drive a petrol car
I think hybrids are going to take a larger part of the market full stop, as diesel technology reaches its natural limits. The Japanese manufacturers are already there and the others seem to be playing catch up.
And if you think the tax system is skewed towards diesels - that's nothing compared to hybrids and EVs...
thinfourth2 said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
as long as the Germans make RS M and AMG cars diesel, hybrid and EV cars will never be on my shopping list 
As long as you have the choice of german cars i'll be happy if i have my choice of EVs
V88Dicky said:
My weekly total works mileage is 350 miles. For this I use a 2.0 petrol that cost me £1900 to buy, and it does, without fail, 42-45 mpg per week. I cannot imagine any circumstance when I would require a diesel.
It's also cheap and easy to (self) maintain. Am I doing something wrong?
Ahh, I see you have the petrol Avensis, one of the most efficient petrol engined cars around WITHOUT a turbo and nothing to go wrong on it like turbos, DPFS etc...a shrewd choice for a daily driver..!! Its really sad that Co2 ratings are killing of n/a petrol engines because in the real world they can be VERY economical. My mate took an E39 528i from Bournemouth to London area and got 38 MPG on the trip computer...doing 75 MPH av. A 530d of the same vintage really wouldnt do much better. My VW Passat 1.8T clocked 45 MPG on the way home each day this week, but I did have to drive pretty gently to achieve that.It's also cheap and easy to (self) maintain. Am I doing something wrong?
My father in law had an X Type 2.5 SE. He could do 35 MPG from Bournemouth to London on a run. Now he has an XF 3 litre diesel and he is struggling to get more than 40 MPG on a similar journey, not much progress really...
In answer to the question, I dont think petrol will make a comeback. There are some good petrol engined cars out there now, but most companies seem to just offer diesel on the company car list and its nigh on impossible for someone like me to find a decend second hand PETROL engined family car in the passat/Mondeo/insignia bracket...
Edited by Bezza1969 on Saturday 11th August 08:18
Dave Hedgehog said:
thinfourth2 said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
as long as the Germans make RS M and AMG cars diesel, hybrid and EV cars will never be on my shopping list
As long as you have the choice of german cars i'll be happy if i have my choice of EVsWhen asked what would you do with your last gallon of petrol almost no one says they would use it to drive to tescos
V88Dicky said:
My weekly total works mileage is 350 miles. For this I use a 2.0 petrol that cost me £1900 to buy, and it does, without fail, 42-45 mpg per week. I cannot imagine any circumstance when I would require a diesel.
It's also cheap and easy to (self) maintain. Am I doing something wrong?
What if said diesel would average 70mpg? Hmm It's also cheap and easy to (self) maintain. Am I doing something wrong?
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