Discussion
Hi All,
Mrs Ice has just shown an interest in the above!
Having never owned an alfa I wanted to know what they are like to own, live with, service and general stuff.
Which model is the best to go with?
Just for information, we were looking at BMW 120d's and have a budget of £5-6k.
Talk to me please...what engines do these Alfa diesels have??
Thanks in advance.
IceBoy
Mrs Ice has just shown an interest in the above!
Having never owned an alfa I wanted to know what they are like to own, live with, service and general stuff.
Which model is the best to go with?
Just for information, we were looking at BMW 120d's and have a budget of £5-6k.
Talk to me please...what engines do these Alfa diesels have??
Thanks in advance.
IceBoy
The 147 comes in diesel comes only with 1.9 engines, in 8v and 16v varieties, the 8v is between 100 and 115 bhp, the 16v does about 150 stock. The facelift model (post 2005) has the JTDm engine which is a bit newer.
I've never owned one, but i have test driven a 115hp JTD and it was nice and brisk. It wont set the world alight or anything, but you will easily move any traffic and reach illegal speeds quickly enough. The JTDs are also pretty chipe-able, the 8v model does 140-150 with a remap (dont get the 100hp one though, it has a weak clutch/flywheel and doesnt handle much more power), the 16v goes up to 175 before the turbo becomes a limiting factor.
The only weak spot i know off for the 147 is the front suspension arms tend to wear out quickly, the jtd engines are pretty much bulletproof and very good.
I've never owned one, but i have test driven a 115hp JTD and it was nice and brisk. It wont set the world alight or anything, but you will easily move any traffic and reach illegal speeds quickly enough. The JTDs are also pretty chipe-able, the 8v model does 140-150 with a remap (dont get the 100hp one though, it has a weak clutch/flywheel and doesnt handle much more power), the 16v goes up to 175 before the turbo becomes a limiting factor.
The only weak spot i know off for the 147 is the front suspension arms tend to wear out quickly, the jtd engines are pretty much bulletproof and very good.
Vitorio said:
The 147 comes in diesel comes only with 1.9 engines, in 8v and 16v varieties, the 8v is between 100 and 115 bhp, the 16v does about 150 stock. The facelift model (post 2005) has the JTDm engine which is a bit newer.
I've never owned one, but i have test driven a 115hp JTD and it was nice and brisk. It wont set the world alight or anything, but you will easily move any traffic and reach illegal speeds quickly enough. The JTDs are also pretty chipe-able, the 8v model does 140-150 with a remap (dont get the 100hp one though, it has a weak clutch/flywheel and doesnt handle much more power), the 16v goes up to 175 before the turbo becomes a limiting factor.
The only weak spot i know off for the 147 is the front suspension arms tend to wear out quickly, the jtd engines are pretty much bulletproof and very good.
As Vitorio said, the 147/156/GT generation are all pretty strong, front suspension arms and drop links are a weak point, otherwise engines are strong (change the waterpump at the same time as cambelts on the JTD's), electrics cause no issue and generally just good little cars. Even clutches last quite long (I hadn't heard of the 100hp weaker clutch, but no reason to doubt).I've never owned one, but i have test driven a 115hp JTD and it was nice and brisk. It wont set the world alight or anything, but you will easily move any traffic and reach illegal speeds quickly enough. The JTDs are also pretty chipe-able, the 8v model does 140-150 with a remap (dont get the 100hp one though, it has a weak clutch/flywheel and doesnt handle much more power), the 16v goes up to 175 before the turbo becomes a limiting factor.
The only weak spot i know off for the 147 is the front suspension arms tend to wear out quickly, the jtd engines are pretty much bulletproof and very good.
I wouldn't hesitate personally, even though I find the petrol engines more fun!
V6Alfisti said:
As Vitorio said, the 147/156/GT generation are all pretty strong, front suspension arms and drop links are a weak point, otherwise engines are strong (change the waterpump at the same time as cambelts on the JTD's), electrics cause no issue and generally just good little cars. Even clutches last quite long (I hadn't heard of the 100hp weaker clutch, but no reason to doubt).
I wouldn't hesitate personally, even though I find the petrol engines more fun!
The weak clutch info comes from squadra-tuning. Apparently alfa fitted a relatively weak clutch to the lowest jtd. Good enough to work for the engine stock, but once you start upping the torque through remapping, it quickly becomes a problem. It isnt really something to avoid unless you plan on remapping.I wouldn't hesitate personally, even though I find the petrol engines more fun!
Given the briliant performance you can get out of a JTD with a remap, i'd avoid the weak clutch models myself.
I have a 147 Q2 Sport (diesel, 150bhp, limited slip diff on front axel, 6 speed manual). It's an absolute hoot to drive, sticks like glue and does sensible mileage if you drive it sensibly. I've been getting about 43-45mpg on motorways at outside lane speeds, it seems to manage a bit shy of 50mpg if you join the middle lane owners club.
If you give it some wellington, good luck
. A blast down back roads with the turbo screaming sees somewhere in the region of 30 mpg (drops to about 17-20 if you hammer it in second...). My commute to work is about 37-40mpg over a mix of back roads and 50mph main road.
Things to watch out for are the dash lights on start (should see ABS, Airbag and engine on for about 3-5 seconds then turn off, anything else is a fault) and the odometer. If the odo is flashing, thats indication of a general fault and can be just about anything.
I would strongly suggest changing the cam belt kit and water pump as soon as you buy (unless reputable garage paperwork says it's been done). Although the service book says 75k before first change, you really want to be doing it at about 50k ish, maybe earlier if paranoid or the car is old with low miles. The water pump bearings are known to sieze, which leads to a stripped timing belt and a £1500 bill to have your engine rebuilt.
Other warnings are to keep the bonnet catch cleaned and well greased. It doesn't always shut fully (so check it) and if it's not entirely shut it can flip open while you are driving. Scary stuff.
I love mine!
If you give it some wellington, good luck
. A blast down back roads with the turbo screaming sees somewhere in the region of 30 mpg (drops to about 17-20 if you hammer it in second...). My commute to work is about 37-40mpg over a mix of back roads and 50mph main road.Things to watch out for are the dash lights on start (should see ABS, Airbag and engine on for about 3-5 seconds then turn off, anything else is a fault) and the odometer. If the odo is flashing, thats indication of a general fault and can be just about anything.
I would strongly suggest changing the cam belt kit and water pump as soon as you buy (unless reputable garage paperwork says it's been done). Although the service book says 75k before first change, you really want to be doing it at about 50k ish, maybe earlier if paranoid or the car is old with low miles. The water pump bearings are known to sieze, which leads to a stripped timing belt and a £1500 bill to have your engine rebuilt.
Other warnings are to keep the bonnet catch cleaned and well greased. It doesn't always shut fully (so check it) and if it's not entirely shut it can flip open while you are driving. Scary stuff.
I love mine!
Edited by darkfold on Sunday 19th August 11:02
"never owned an alfa"
Buy it for her immediately!
The JTD diesel gives you sufficient grunt without the necessity of a remap (unless you want a true "wolf in sheeps') whilst providing good mpg figs even when driven briskly.
Ride can be a little harsh but it'll never go anywhere you don't point it giving you loads of confidence to play; it is true that the front suspension hangers wear (owners will recognise the knock), not too expensive to replace though...
Buy it for her immediately!
The JTD diesel gives you sufficient grunt without the necessity of a remap (unless you want a true "wolf in sheeps') whilst providing good mpg figs even when driven briskly.
Ride can be a little harsh but it'll never go anywhere you don't point it giving you loads of confidence to play; it is true that the front suspension hangers wear (owners will recognise the knock), not too expensive to replace though...
And drop in on the Alfa room as well for more advice http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/forum.asp?h=0&a...
I had a 147 JTDm for 3 years, the longest I've ever owned a car despite never really being that fond of it! I found it handled surprisingly well, with a nice neutral balance. The throttle did little to alter the balance not sure if that is a trait of diesels in general though. The engine was like most diesels, loads of mid-range power so feels great in normal drive but ultimately a narrow powerband that means lots of gear changes if pressing on. I got okay economy out of it, similar to reported above. The lots of gear changes was probably what annoyed me the most as a heavy clutch (for the power) and obstructive 6 speed box meant this wasn't much fun to press on in despite the handling. My missus nicknamed it 'the tractor' because of the box and engine. Steering had okay feel and the cabin is a lovely place to be.
Running costs seemed very cheap due to economy, tax and reliability (parts are very cheap) but turned out to not be that great due to the depreciation (£5k - £2k over 3 years and 30k). Only problems I had were the front suspension mentioned above (£120 plus fitting for all 4 front wishbones and arb droplinks) and an intermittent (3x in 3 years) engine warning light for overboost (I just kept turning it off).
Overall if I was looking for a cheap to run diesel hatch I'd consider another as it's more interesting than something like a Golf but I'd be wary of spending £6k on one given the depreciation.
Running costs seemed very cheap due to economy, tax and reliability (parts are very cheap) but turned out to not be that great due to the depreciation (£5k - £2k over 3 years and 30k). Only problems I had were the front suspension mentioned above (£120 plus fitting for all 4 front wishbones and arb droplinks) and an intermittent (3x in 3 years) engine warning light for overboost (I just kept turning it off).
Overall if I was looking for a cheap to run diesel hatch I'd consider another as it's more interesting than something like a Golf but I'd be wary of spending £6k on one given the depreciation.
Wifey has a 1.9 jtdm that we bought in 2007. Cracking car and no plans to chop it in. Only issue we have had, was a new clutch at 30000 miles a couple of months ago. Oh and the drivers door handle decided to snap. Common fault apparently!
Economy as said before is not too bad. About 45 on a run if gentle.
Ours is red with full black leather interior and 17" Lusso spoked wheels.
Economy as said before is not too bad. About 45 on a run if gentle.
Ours is red with full black leather interior and 17" Lusso spoked wheels.
nottyash said:
Pick of these is the Ducati edition, with 170bhp.
I was going to buy one new but was worried about Alfa reliability and depreciation.
Think they are above your budget at about £8k.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201210455110529/sort/pricedesc/usedcars/price-to/6000/model/147/make/alfa_romeo/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/onesearchad/new/postcode/cw55gg/quicksearch/true/page/1/radius/1500?logcode=pI was going to buy one new but was worried about Alfa reliability and depreciation.
Think they are above your budget at about £8k.
That one's on budget.
The older 8v JTDs can be bought for next to nothing now, for those on a tight budget wanting a fairly modern diesel. JTDms are very good, but if they're anything like my 156 2.4, most that are up to and around 70k miles will be wanting a clutch, and more importantly a DMF, which means ££££.
Do it. The 147 is a great car and the 1.9jtd engine pretty good the variable vane turbo makes the power delivery pretty progressive for a diesel. It is a much nicer engine to drive than either VW or PSA group diesels.
The egr valve can stick but these can be cleaned out. Good hard driving helps keep them clean.
We had a 147 petrol for 9 years and apart from the clutch giving up at 70k, the only other issues were the frequency the front upper wishbones needed replacing. Sqeaking that sounds like it is coming from behind the dash is an indication they are on their way. It isn't a big job and parts are cheap enough.
The 147 really did handle well. We also had a 156 JTD 16v (I found the 8v a bit slow for my liking). I sold this last year with 130k on it. The engine was fine and gave me no trouble. As has already been said, it is advisable to change the cam belt at around 50k and not wait until 72k also get the water pump done at the same time.
The handling difference between the 156 that was the base spec and the 147 lusso was enormous. Whilst essentially the same chassis the 156 had much softer damping and too much body roll. The 147 was nice and firm and could be thrown around much more.
The egr valve can stick but these can be cleaned out. Good hard driving helps keep them clean.
We had a 147 petrol for 9 years and apart from the clutch giving up at 70k, the only other issues were the frequency the front upper wishbones needed replacing. Sqeaking that sounds like it is coming from behind the dash is an indication they are on their way. It isn't a big job and parts are cheap enough.
The 147 really did handle well. We also had a 156 JTD 16v (I found the 8v a bit slow for my liking). I sold this last year with 130k on it. The engine was fine and gave me no trouble. As has already been said, it is advisable to change the cam belt at around 50k and not wait until 72k also get the water pump done at the same time.
The handling difference between the 156 that was the base spec and the 147 lusso was enormous. Whilst essentially the same chassis the 156 had much softer damping and too much body roll. The 147 was nice and firm and could be thrown around much more.
The Alfa JTD engines are great. Nice torquey, reliable engines. All fiat built and have found there way into all sorts of other brands. Even Rover wanted to put them in the 75 before they went bump.
The rest of the car will probably fall apart around the engine though
But atleast you know the engine will go on forever
The rest of the car will probably fall apart around the engine though
But atleast you know the engine will go on foreverGassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff