Speaker Upgrade

[kiethton]

Following to and from a trip down to SS this morning i have noticed that the Porsche's speakers ( http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f... )could really do with an upgrade as they sound worse than those on my iphone 4...

I want to keep the car looking standard but upgrade behind the original grills. The size of the current ones is 6x4" are there any recommendations in this size as the only ones I have seen are In Phase XTC640's at about £40. (Budget to £50ish)

The current head unit is an alpine with 4x50w output if that has any baring on recommendations and preferred music genre is R&B/Hip Hop/Funky House so on the bassier side with a balance in desires towards Music quality at moderate volume (loud to most people but not deafening) opposed to out and out noise.

Edited by kiethton on Sunday 2nd September 20:08

[Beardo]

caraudiosecurity.com will sell you a pair of Alpine 6x4s for £35 that should easily be better than what you have - I have the 5x7s in my Fiesta and they're night and day from the stock stuff. So good I'll be putting them in my Golf cabby too

[Deluded]

Jbl also do 6x4 speakers.

[kiethton]

Thanks for the advice, I'll check out the suggestions

[kiethton]

From looking the stereo seems to be a version very similar to this one (4x50w)

http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/product/products_...

and is currently powering the two front speakers (OEM and only installed).

If i were to swap the two speakers for these would it all work automatically? - http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/product/products_...

[defblade]

Before doing this, learn about clipping (and lots more ) as you'll kill nice speakers even quicker than the crappy OE ones if you don't understand how the HU's amp that's killing them.

Take 2 aspirin before you start, and read www.bcae1.com.

Then get over to www.talkaudio.co.uk ; also - prepare to empty your wallet

[r129sl]

I have upgraded the speakers in my w124. I had similar considerations to you. I wanted to keep it all stock, didn't want to become an ICE enthusiast and didn't want to spend a fortune. I was staggered by how big an improvement I wrought by changing the factory dash speakers for some Rainbow speakers. Mine are only 4.5" in size. The sound quality is a quantum leap forward. Rainbow is not a brand I had heard of previously, but is a high quality German manufacturer and very well-regarded, it seems. I fitted Rainbow Dream Line DL-X4.7 co-axial speakers; I see they supply a 6x4 in the same line, DL-X46. See here: http://www.rainbow-audio.de/ the website is a bit clunky but you will figure it out. This was an easy and cheap (£120) improvement which really made a big difference for me.

[StottyZr]

Get low power speakers if you're just going to run them off your headunit. If you get 300watt speakers and power them with a 50watt headunit it will sound terrible and tinny.

I'd personally go down the route of fitting an amp. A small amp hidden behind a door card powering some good quality speakers as it should, will sound brilliant.

[900T-R]

StottyZr said:

Get low power speakers if you're just going to run them off your headunit. If you get 300watt speakers and power them with a 50watt headunit it will sound terrible and tinny.

Has nothing to do with power ratings - they're as good as useless as a guide for anything, anyway.

The things to look for are sensitivity and impedance behaviour - indeed it's true that the low-end speakers of the manufacturers' ranges by nature tend to be easier to drive because they have no or very simple crossovers (usually just a capacitor for the tweeter) and, often, light pulp or paper cones.

[StottyZr]

900T-R said:

StottyZr said:

Get low power speakers if you're just going to run them off your headunit. If you get 300watt speakers and power them with a 50watt headunit it will sound terrible and tinny.

Has nothing to do with power ratings - they're as good as useless as a guide for anything, anyway.

The things to look for are sensitivity and impedance behaviour - indeed it's true that the low-end speakers of the manufacturers' ranges by nature tend to be easier to drive because they have no or very simple crossovers (usually just a capacitor for the tweeter) and, often, light pulp or paper cones.

Ahh fair enough then! I installed some very expensive JL 5.5" components last weekend. They sounded absolute pants, the amp went in yesterday, much louder and clearer and much much more bass (even with amp set on hpf) (this is how I reached my conclusion)

Any links on explanations to how it all works? I'd just spoken from personal experiance as apposed to actual technical knowledge

[smartphone hater]

Only talking from personal experience as well I'd also suggest an amp.

[mig25_foxbat2003]

kiethton said:

If i were to swap the two speakers for these would it all work automatically?

Bear in mind that Porsche connectors might not be the same push-on ones that will automatically work with off-the-shelf speakers. You might have to chop off the stock connectors and either solder the wires onto the speaker terminals, or crimp some connectors on, depending on preference. Neither is a particularly tough job though, and the rewards would be worth it.

Alternatively, as someone has suggested, you could pick up an amp and a wiring kit, and run those to replace the OEM wiring, which would improve your sound quality still further, but might be a bit more hassle to set up.

[zcacogp]

StottyZr said:

Ahh fair enough then! I installed some very expensive JL 5.5" components last weekend. They sounded absolute pants, the amp went in yesterday, much louder and clearer and much much more bass (even with amp set on hpf) (this is how I reached my conclusion)

Any links on explanations to how it all works? I'd just spoken from personal experiance as apposed to actual technical knowledge

The speakers are less important to the sound quality than the amp. The amp in a head unit - just about any head unit you care to mention - will be very, very low-powered (ignore any and all of the 'power' claims for the head unit; they simply won't be true in the real world.)

An audio system is three main bits; source (CD/iPod/radio), amp and speakers. The amp is usually the weakest bit of the chain, and the easiest to improve. Good speakers driven from a bad amp will sound bad. Average speakers driven from a good amp can sound very good. In the case of the OP's 924, I'd buy a small external amplifier (pay around £30 second-hand) and some cables and spend an afternoon wiring it in. Spend about £2 on some capacitors to ensure that the speakers only get the frequencies they can handle (instructions here) and the difference will be astonishing. Then, and only then, should you think about buying some new speakers. (This is exactly what I have done in my 944, and can confirm it works very well indeed.)


Oli.

[StottyZr]

Thanks for that Oli, it made an interesting read. I've fitted crossovers before and I've found the difference can be... lots.

I didn't realise you could do the same thing with a simple capacitor! It could save a lot of money in the future :scratchin:

[zcacogp]

Stotty,

A capacitor IS a crossover ... just a simple one. If you want to get really geeky (and I notice you are a 'Field IT Engineer', so geekiness should be right up your street ) then google "Crossover design" and look at the way that different designs produce different roll-off characteristics. A capacitor is a first-order cross-over, and adding an inductor and more capacitors makes it into a second- and third-order crossover.




Oli.

[900T-R]

What he said -

Capacitor - first order high pass (6dB/octave rolloff)
Capacitor + inductor - second order high pass (12 dB/octave rolloff)

There's also third and fourth order crossovers, but then you get into the complicated stuff - probably unecessarily so for most combinations of 'normal' mid/bass cone speakers and dome tweeters.

Then there are resistors to attenuate the 'louder' of the two units when the sensitivity between the two differs, impedance correction networks and whatnot... however KISS is generally a good guide for crossover design. If you can get away with just a capacitor before the high frequency unit, this will often be the best solution (and invest the money you saved by scrapping the rest in a higher quality cap ).

[defblade]

StottyZr said:

Any links on explanations to how it all works?

Defblade said:

Take 2 aspirin before you start, and read www.bcae1.com.

[Ozzie Osmond]

IMO changing one part of a duff system is pointless. Best to change the whole thing.

Or at least if you really want to keep the head unit because it looks best in the particular dash, install an amp AND change the speakers.

The reason is this. If a system is in reasonable balance (which it will be if the can manufacturer specified it to a price) but not very good, changing one part will just highlight the weakness in the next.

[kiethton]

zcacogp said:

StottyZr said:

Ahh fair enough then! I installed some very expensive JL 5.5" components last weekend. They sounded absolute pants, the amp went in yesterday, much louder and clearer and much much more bass (even with amp set on hpf) (this is how I reached my conclusion)

Any links on explanations to how it all works? I'd just spoken from personal experiance as apposed to actual technical knowledge

The speakers are less important to the sound quality than the amp. The amp in a head unit - just about any head unit you care to mention - will be very, very low-powered (ignore any and all of the 'power' claims for the head unit; they simply won't be true in the real world.)

An audio system is three main bits; source (CD/iPod/radio), amp and speakers. The amp is usually the weakest bit of the chain, and the easiest to improve. Good speakers driven from a bad amp will sound bad. Average speakers driven from a good amp can sound very good. In the case of the OP's 924, I'd buy a small external amplifier (pay around £30 second-hand) and some cables and spend an afternoon wiring it in. Spend about £2 on some capacitors to ensure that the speakers only get the frequencies they can handle (instructions here) and the difference will be astonishing. Then, and only then, should you think about buying some new speakers. (This is exactly what I have done in my 944, and can confirm it works very well indeed.)


Oli.

Thanks for this, very informative. I'll take a look through that link and try and source a small external amplifier...is there any recommended make/model? Will one amp power all speakers or will i need to get one for each?

Also the speakers, do they typically come singly or in a pair?

As I said earlier on I'm not a audiophile (as you can tell) or have too much spare cash but this looks to be a good way of going about it, anything has to be an upgrade on the current system with its two current (original) speakers. However, on the way back from work just now and spotted a few holes in the rear pods next to the passenger seats which look almost akin to speaker vents but wasn't too sure in the dark (no noise currently comes from them though)...will investigate this at the weekend to see if I do in fact have the possibility of a 4 speaker setup!

[StottyZr]

zcacogp said:

Stotty,

A capacitor IS a crossover ... just a simple one. If you want to get really geeky (and I notice you are a 'Field IT Engineer', so geekiness should be right up your street ) then google "Crossover design" and look at the way that different designs produce different roll-off characteristics. A capacitor is a first-order cross-over, and adding an inductor and more capacitors makes it into a second- and third-order crossover.




Oli.

I'd worked that one out But in my eyes a crossover is quite a substantial box with adjustment. I didn't realize a simple capacitor could do the same job!

Depending on work load I may spend tomorrow reading up as much as I can absorb, genuinely interested in this stuff!