What are these?

[300bhp/ton]

You know who you are, all those that said these aren't hot hatches for one reason or another (driven wheels, number of cylinder, not n/a, price, built for homologation, number of seats, amount built etc, etc).

Basically all of these would have to be ruled out, by one or more people moaning that they aren't a hot hatch because of something.... so go on then, tell me what they actually are?


Alfa 147GTA


VR6


MG Metro Turbo


Cooper S GP


RS500


4Motion


WRX


RS



S3


Abarth 500


Williams


Starlet Galanza


HF 4WD Turbo (this is NOT an Integrale!!!!!!)


RS2000 4x4


R26


R32








I must admit, I never realised hot hatches were such a rare breed of car being as none of the above apparently qualify as one...

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Friday 5th October 11:09

[HustleRussell]

Minerals. Most of them are Iron Oxide by now.

[anonymous-user]

I don't know, I fell asleep when I got to the 3rd VW Golf photograph....

[MrFrodo]

I might argue the toss on the Escort due to its rather saloony shape, but don't see any problem with the others. Certainly the two-wheel drive ones. You might say the more focused four-wheel drive hot hatches are their own niche, up against Scoobies and Evos perhaps.

[Scrambled]

It must be my age 300, but once again you have my support mate! Go on son!

[thinfourth2]

A small Albania traffic warden?

[300bhp/ton]

MrFrodo said:

I might argue the toss on the Escort due to its rather saloony shape

Ok, so these aren't hot hatches either then?

[300bhp/ton]

Scrambled said:

It must be my age 300, but once again you have my support mate! Go on son!

Ta

[sinizter]

A Golf
Another Golf
Another bloody Golf
... I'm now bored of this game.

[StoatInACoat]

Excuse me but why are Zoo animals and the far superior wild animals not split into at least 36 different categories?

[AC43]

I found the odd one out; this one - it's mineral - maybe a lump of coal?

[GravelBen]

300bhp/ton said:

That looks like a saloon with a short boot to me (at least from that angle). The rest I generally agree, though the one below it would probably be called a lift-back down here and I voted 'zoo animals' out of principle.

Edited by GravelBen on Friday 5th October 11:26

[v8will]

I didn't vote in the hot hatch thread but here goes...

Definitions are always going to be a problem. How many times has the definitions for sportscars, supercars etc been discussed?

For me there isn't actually a solid definition as the goal posts can move about, sometimes through car development or just because a particular model doesn't 'fit' although it may tick alot of the criteria.

My traditional view was that a Hot Hatch should be the following;

1. A mid sized car, (Flexible as cars have gotten much bigger through time)
2. FWD
3. Sub 2000cc capacity but 150BHP was always a good place to start separating 'warm' hatches from 'hot' (lets not discuss power to weight for now)
4. Regarded as good to drive (Subjective I know)

Of course some flexibility was allowed, the 205 1.9 was most definitely hot as was the R5GTT despite neither being able to breach the 150BHP threshold, indeed compared to today's offerings they may only merely be classed as 'warm'

By that reasoning then surely the Escort RS turbo would be allowed through? Sorry doesn't fit my criteria so is therefore just Korma strength in comparison.

VR6 Golf? Nope, breaches the capacity rule and in my mind was always more of a competent tourer than A road blaster. Ford threw in a curve ball with the Focus ST, breaches the capacity rule but you cannot argue that is anything other than a very good example of a hot hatch. The mechanically similar Volvo isn't a hot hatch though...

Escort Cossie, Lancia Delta etc. Rally reps but stuff like the R32 Golf fall awkwardly into a catergory of their own.

Simple eh? Far from it and I'm sure many would disagree on my definitions of a sportscar, hypercar etc as well.

Really the definitions need to be tightened up and (mostly) agreed on to conduct a poll.

[ewenm]

I went for "Other" as they are pixels on a screen which I didn't see as an option on your list. <you'll not catch me out like that!>

[300bhp/ton]

ewenm said:

I went for "Other" as they are pixels on a screen which I didn't see as an option on your list. <you'll not catch me out like that!>

I like

[geeks]

Other, they are all pictures of cars!

[aka_kerrly]

300bhp/ton said:

I must admit, I never realised hot hatches were such a rare breed of car being as none of the above apparently qualify as one...

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Friday 5th October 11:09

Those are ALL hot hatches.

The Vr6/4mo/R32/Alfa 3.2/Clio V6 and other 6 cylinder versions are slightly more grown up hot hatches but they are:
1) hatchback cars that could be confused with a 1.4L version of the same car
2) Considerably faster than one would expect the average 1.4 to be
3) FUN

The only ones I am not sure about are the Imprezza, Escort Cosworth and 4x4 Lancia Delta Integrale as these are more rally car based and far too different from the standard models. That said, that contradicts my earlier statement that a Clio V6 is a hot hatch when it is clearly a million miles away from a 1.2 Clio so maybe I'll scratch that but the Golfs and Alfa remain.

[Triumph Man]

I have to admit 300, I'm with you. I don't know why people would disagree that these aren't hot hatchbacks. They are hatchbacks, and they are fast (relatively). Where's the argument?

[300bhp/ton]

aka_kerrly said:

Those are ALL hot hatches.

The Vr6/4mo/R32/Alfa 3.2/Clio V6 and other 6 cylinder versions are slightly more grown up hot hatches but they are:
1) hatchback cars that could be confused with a 1.4L version of the same car
2) Considerably faster than one would expect the average 1.4 to be
3) FUN

The only ones I am not sure about are the Imprezza, Escort Cosworth and 4x4 Lancia Delta Integrale as these are more rally car based and far too different from the standard models. That said, that contradicts my earlier statement that a Clio V6 is a hot hatch when it is clearly a million miles away from a 1.2 Clio so maybe I'll scratch that but the Golfs and Alfa remain.

Interestingly the picture in the op is not an Integrale, it is an earlier model (HF 4WD). The Delta was available as a 1.6GT, Lancia then turbocharged this (still fwd), later on they then offered the same car with 4WD too. The 8v Integral is a HF 4WD but with some minor changes (better water pump, larger rad, better cooling fan, larger valves - nothing major and it kept the same body work and style as a 1.3 Delta ). Quite amazing how so many people are happy to jump in feet first claiming this that and the other, almost as if the Integrale was some bespoke spaceframe chassis hypercar.

The hatch Impreza had precisely 0% nothing to do with WRC rallying apart from the name and general shape. Or at least no more input than a Focus RS had with the Ford WRC car.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Friday 5th October 12:23

[aka_kerrly]

300bhp/ton said:

Interestingly the picture in the op is not an Integrale, it is an earlier model (HF 4WD). The Delta was available as a 1.6GT, Lancia then turbocharged this (still fwd), later on they then offered the same car with 4WD too. The 8v Integral is a HF 4WD but with some minor changes (better water pump, larger rad, better cooling fan, larger valves - nothing major and it kept the same body work and style as a 1.3 Delta ). Quite amazing how so many people are happy to jump in feet first claiming this that and the other, almost as if the Integrale was some bespoke spaceframe chassis hypercar.

The hatch Impreza had precisely 0% nothing to do with rallying apart from the name and general shape. Or at least no more input than a Focus RS had with the Ford WRC car.

Great knowledge, just had a quick scan of the wiki article and concur that the 1.6 HF with it's standard(ish) looking body does indeed qualify it as hot hatch. I hadn't realised there were as many variations of the Delta from 79-92.