Making the jump to dsg
Discussion
Hey guys.
I went car shopping yesterday, I'm replacing my old Renaultsport clio 172.
I test drove a Vauxhall Corsa VXR, and a VW Polo Gti, I've also looked at a clio 200 but having driven one round the Nurburgring I didn't drive one yesterday.
However I'm struggling with the decision because after driving the vxr and polo gti back to back, I thought the vxr felt a bit sluggish, butI'm unsure about making the jump to dsg.
Driving the twin charged polo gti dsg really shocked me, its instant power and torque at any point in the rev range even in 7th gear it was amazing, plus that awesome gearbox, it was such an experience having never driven an automatic before, this was certainly a good first automatic car to drive.
The clio isn't flashy enough, and I don't do enough track driving to warrant needing the reputable handling 200.
So that leaves me with the stylish and affordable corsa vxr, that will depreciate fast, but has a safe manual box.
Or the polo gti dsg that costs a bit more, but will hold its value better, and was one of the most fun drives I've ever had.
Corsa. Polo.
Cheaper. More expensive.
Recaros. 6cd, USB, iPod, aux
6 speed manual. 7 speed dsg
38 mpg. 48mpg
Quiet. Loud and raucous.
In your face. More reserved
Depreciates quickly. Will hold its value
100,000 mile warrantee. 60,000 mile warrantee 3years.
4th cylinder issues. Oil consumption issues.
I like both and I've highlighted the main points of each above, however I can't seem to decide. If the polo had a manual box I'd be biting there arm off for one, but everyone always says autos are boring. I disagree after driving it yesterday, plus my commute has a lot of stop start traffic which an auto would be brilliant for.
But the corsa would still have warrantee after the polo, is the cheaper car per month, is still a fun drive, has them recaros.
Has anyone got either or driven both that could offer some insights.
I went car shopping yesterday, I'm replacing my old Renaultsport clio 172.
I test drove a Vauxhall Corsa VXR, and a VW Polo Gti, I've also looked at a clio 200 but having driven one round the Nurburgring I didn't drive one yesterday.
However I'm struggling with the decision because after driving the vxr and polo gti back to back, I thought the vxr felt a bit sluggish, butI'm unsure about making the jump to dsg.
Driving the twin charged polo gti dsg really shocked me, its instant power and torque at any point in the rev range even in 7th gear it was amazing, plus that awesome gearbox, it was such an experience having never driven an automatic before, this was certainly a good first automatic car to drive.
The clio isn't flashy enough, and I don't do enough track driving to warrant needing the reputable handling 200.
So that leaves me with the stylish and affordable corsa vxr, that will depreciate fast, but has a safe manual box.
Or the polo gti dsg that costs a bit more, but will hold its value better, and was one of the most fun drives I've ever had.
Corsa. Polo.
Cheaper. More expensive.
Recaros. 6cd, USB, iPod, aux
6 speed manual. 7 speed dsg
38 mpg. 48mpg
Quiet. Loud and raucous.
In your face. More reserved
Depreciates quickly. Will hold its value
100,000 mile warrantee. 60,000 mile warrantee 3years.
4th cylinder issues. Oil consumption issues.
I like both and I've highlighted the main points of each above, however I can't seem to decide. If the polo had a manual box I'd be biting there arm off for one, but everyone always says autos are boring. I disagree after driving it yesterday, plus my commute has a lot of stop start traffic which an auto would be brilliant for.
But the corsa would still have warrantee after the polo, is the cheaper car per month, is still a fun drive, has them recaros.
Has anyone got either or driven both that could offer some insights.
OH has a polo GTi
its certainly got some oomff, feels faster to 60 than my MKV R32
quality product as well, 3 yr warranty is not an issue as VAG warranties can be extended providing the service book is up to date and there's more than 30 days left
it ate oil, 6ltrs in 6000 miles, after some advise i then drove it 100% for 30 mins and viola it stopped burning oil and hasn't been topped up in 12k miles now, they do not like to be run in gently, it appears to glaze the cylinder liners
i like DSG for real world driving, control when you want it, effortless driving when you are tired or in traffic
its certainly got some oomff, feels faster to 60 than my MKV R32
quality product as well, 3 yr warranty is not an issue as VAG warranties can be extended providing the service book is up to date and there's more than 30 days left
it ate oil, 6ltrs in 6000 miles, after some advise i then drove it 100% for 30 mins and viola it stopped burning oil and hasn't been topped up in 12k miles now, they do not like to be run in gently, it appears to glaze the cylinder liners
i like DSG for real world driving, control when you want it, effortless driving when you are tired or in traffic
It sounds like you already have decided but are just looking for some reassurance!
I tried a new Fabia VRS when they came out and wasn't that convinced on a 15 minute test drive, but I can see the advantages. They are the future of performance cars too, so may as well get used to them!
I tried a new Fabia VRS when they came out and wasn't that convinced on a 15 minute test drive, but I can see the advantages. They are the future of performance cars too, so may as well get used to them!
poo at Paul's said:
I've driven both and run a company selling hybrid Hondas, so yes.
Rofl that was really well thought out 
Cheers for the replys so far,
Yeah the polo is swaying it to be honest.
The Fabia vrs does interest me as my first two cars were skodas.
Thing is the dealership had a 1yr old 20,000 miler they were trying to off on me, but I want new.
IMO depends on how long you are going to keep the car as the DSG boxes are quite prone to problems after a few years and they are an expensive fix once out of warranty, if you have a read around on the various VAG forums it seems to be more common on the new generation 7speed dsg than the older 6speed.
The engine you're looking at (the 1.4tsi) is also well known for absolutely gulping down oil, some are ok others drink the stuff like its water. Interesting from the guy above who cured it by ragging it for a while but it is an issue with the majority rather than minority of those engines. It doesn't do any harm but it is an additional running expense which will annoy some owners.
I currently drive a cooper S which has the same oil drinking issue and it is rather annoying that I have to keep filling it up but then I guess its not something i'm used to as other cars I owned never drank a drop.
Someone mentioned the fabia VRS above, I hate that car it looks awful imo however do consider the SEAT Ibiza cupra which is the same platform again but quite a bit cheaper than the golf and imo looks just as good (apart from the odd shaped steering wheel)
Corsa VXRs aren't bad if you can look past the boy racer image, if fuel consumption is at all important to you then the VXR drinks the stuff if driven hard where as the 1.4 is still likely to see over 30mpg. Only issue with VXRs is if they aren't run in properly there have been reports of the 4th piston starting to melt, they also chew through wheel bearings. I work at Airbus which gets big discounts at vauxhall so lots of people I know have various VXRs and I know a few who have had alot of wheel bearing issues (One guy has had 6 in 30,000 miles)
Good luck with whichever you buy.
The engine you're looking at (the 1.4tsi) is also well known for absolutely gulping down oil, some are ok others drink the stuff like its water. Interesting from the guy above who cured it by ragging it for a while but it is an issue with the majority rather than minority of those engines. It doesn't do any harm but it is an additional running expense which will annoy some owners.
I currently drive a cooper S which has the same oil drinking issue and it is rather annoying that I have to keep filling it up but then I guess its not something i'm used to as other cars I owned never drank a drop.
Someone mentioned the fabia VRS above, I hate that car it looks awful imo however do consider the SEAT Ibiza cupra which is the same platform again but quite a bit cheaper than the golf and imo looks just as good (apart from the odd shaped steering wheel)
Corsa VXRs aren't bad if you can look past the boy racer image, if fuel consumption is at all important to you then the VXR drinks the stuff if driven hard where as the 1.4 is still likely to see over 30mpg. Only issue with VXRs is if they aren't run in properly there have been reports of the 4th piston starting to melt, they also chew through wheel bearings. I work at Airbus which gets big discounts at vauxhall so lots of people I know have various VXRs and I know a few who have had alot of wheel bearing issues (One guy has had 6 in 30,000 miles)
Good luck with whichever you buy.
Edited by tyranical on Sunday 14th October 09:58
I drove a DSG car once from France to southern Spain.. First 20 miles were great fun, flicking up and down the box, marvelling at the fast and perfectly synchronised shifts. But then the realisation dawned that I didn't have full authority over the gearbox - I could ask it to do things and it could say no. In the end I just left it in drive. A bit of a disappointment for me.
davepoth said:
I drove a DSG car once from France to southern Spain.. First 20 miles were great fun, flicking up and down the box, marvelling at the fast and perfectly synchronised shifts. But then the realisation dawned that I didn't have full authority over the gearbox - I could ask it to do things and it could say no. In the end I just left it in drive. A bit of a disappointment for me.
odd as the polo will change gear on command unless the change is going to put it into the red or the revs are too low, it will change up on the red line but a few DSG cars will even hold on the limiter I test drove a Mk2 Fabia VRS just after they'd been released.
Have to admit, I was underwhelmed. It was quick, for sure, and the DSG was impressively smooth but didn't engage me one bit. Also really couldn't make myself like the looks, the Polo looks a lot better. Reading all the oil consumption issues and DSG foibles I'm glad I didn't go for one.
If you do go for a VAG twincharge of some sort, general consensus is not to nanny it from new. There's a rough pattern between cars driven normally/briskly from new and very little oil consumption problem.
Have to admit, I was underwhelmed. It was quick, for sure, and the DSG was impressively smooth but didn't engage me one bit. Also really couldn't make myself like the looks, the Polo looks a lot better. Reading all the oil consumption issues and DSG foibles I'm glad I didn't go for one.
If you do go for a VAG twincharge of some sort, general consensus is not to nanny it from new. There's a rough pattern between cars driven normally/briskly from new and very little oil consumption problem.
Dave Hedgehog said:
odd as the polo will change gear on command unless the change is going to put it into the red or the revs are too low, it will change up on the red line but a few DSG cars will even hold on the limiter
As I say, no full authority. Flicking the paddle wasn't "change gear", it was "could I change gear please?". The gearbox was so good at doing it anyway that there was no point interrupting it. I came to think of the paddles as rather like having a choke on a fuel injected car, just in case you thought the engine needed some more enrichment than the ECU had provided.I've had two DSG cars, a Fabia TSI and a Octavia TDI, and both have never given me the same smooth drive or power delivery of a traditional auto.
The Octavia was better, maybe as it was the 6 speed wet clutch as opposed to the 7 speed dry clutch in the Fabia, with less hesitation but the Fabia was a nightmare to drive in city traffis with gears changes lumpy and a dangerous wait for the engine and gearbox to get their act together and move the car forward. Once on the move they are great gearboxes but I would suggest you take a good test drive in heavy traffic to check it's what you want.
You'll find the 7 speed box will be in 7th not much north of 30mph so try booting it in city driving and the box will think about changing down to 3rd or 2nd and leave you with not much in the meantime, but then the Fabia was only 105bhp.
However DSG are good for fuel compared to a traditional auto box and engine revs compare well between say a 7sp DSG and a 4sp torque converter at 70mph.
The Octavia was better, maybe as it was the 6 speed wet clutch as opposed to the 7 speed dry clutch in the Fabia, with less hesitation but the Fabia was a nightmare to drive in city traffis with gears changes lumpy and a dangerous wait for the engine and gearbox to get their act together and move the car forward. Once on the move they are great gearboxes but I would suggest you take a good test drive in heavy traffic to check it's what you want.
You'll find the 7 speed box will be in 7th not much north of 30mph so try booting it in city driving and the box will think about changing down to 3rd or 2nd and leave you with not much in the meantime, but then the Fabia was only 105bhp.
However DSG are good for fuel compared to a traditional auto box and engine revs compare well between say a 7sp DSG and a 4sp torque converter at 70mph.
Still like my Fabia vRS a lot, but then mine uses no oil (it was an ex-demo, so being used hard early on probably helps) and my mileage is a lot of traffic and busy motorway which it is perfect for.
It's worth a look, the Polo GTi looks better and has nicer feeling plastics inside, but the Skoda VAT-free offer is back on (and applies to the vRS, despite what their website says) which would make it about £13300 before options. Free 3 years servicing if you finance it too.
It's worth a look, the Polo GTi looks better and has nicer feeling plastics inside, but the Skoda VAT-free offer is back on (and applies to the vRS, despite what their website says) which would make it about £13300 before options. Free 3 years servicing if you finance it too.
davepoth said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
odd as the polo will change gear on command unless the change is going to put it into the red or the revs are too low, it will change up on the red line but a few DSG cars will even hold on the limiter
As I say, no full authority. Flicking the paddle wasn't "change gear", it was "could I change gear please?". The gearbox was so good at doing it anyway that there was no point interrupting it. I came to think of the paddles as rather like having a choke on a fuel injected car, just in case you thought the engine needed some more enrichment than the ECU had provided.
davepoth said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
lmfao not full authority because 1 time in 1000 the box wont let you stall the car or send the valves smashing into the pistons
Yes. That's the definition of full authority. Although if you mis-shift that often perhaps a "nanny" gearbox is best for you. 
pedantry taken to a new level ...
I 'went dsg' a few months ago.
From on Octavia vRS to a TT.
Can't say I regret it one bit. Not sure why people moan that it changes up and down even in manual mode. It only does it when absolutely necessary. I'd rather that than shaking the flywheel to bits or having valves bounce through the bonnet.
There are a few reliability concerns though. A warranty is a must IMO.
From on Octavia vRS to a TT.
Can't say I regret it one bit. Not sure why people moan that it changes up and down even in manual mode. It only does it when absolutely necessary. I'd rather that than shaking the flywheel to bits or having valves bounce through the bonnet.
There are a few reliability concerns though. A warranty is a must IMO.
I love the DSG boxes but in all honesty I never use the manual mode in any of the ones I drive.
Just does not seem any point as it will usually make a better job of the changes than I will and it will overrule you if you try to change to what it feels is an inappropriate gear.
Even in "Manual Mode" it will automatically change up if it feels you are thrashing it.
Sport mode can be vicious too.
Lovely fast, smooth changes though, totally different league to the old school auto`s.
Just does not seem any point as it will usually make a better job of the changes than I will and it will overrule you if you try to change to what it feels is an inappropriate gear.
Even in "Manual Mode" it will automatically change up if it feels you are thrashing it.
Sport mode can be vicious too.
Lovely fast, smooth changes though, totally different league to the old school auto`s.
Dave Hedgehog said:
ill write to VAG and get them to fix it to allow you to smash the engine
pedantry taken to a new level ...
It's in no way pedantry. With a manual gearbox, you have control, and you can blow the engine up if you want or don't know better. With a DSG box the electronic control unit has the ultimate say, and they are (certainly the earlier model I drove was) reasonably easy to wrong-foot by flicking the paddles a bit too often. pedantry taken to a new level ...
Part of the fun of driving for a lot of people is that they know that they'll break things if they do it wrong. It's simply not possible with a DSG box and that takes something away. If you're absolutely focused upon shift times you should probably get a CVT equipped car.
I've DCT in the BMW.
Now I havn't driven a VW DSG, however although the DCT is a smashing piece of kit I hate the way it changes up when I don't want it to and 3 point turns are a faff due to the lenght of time of the DCT taking up drive from reverse to forward and vice versa.
I don't know if the DSG has these quirks but it's something to check out as it does bug me a little.
I've no choice though as I have a knackered arm and DCT is the only way I can enjoy a sporty drive.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff