The unstoppable march of the diesel
Discussion
Having spent yesterday wandering around a couple of car supermarkets looking at what's available (mostly because I had no idea what I wanted to replace my company Golf) I despair for most of the motoring public.
I'd estimate that less than 10% of the cars on display were petrols. The one thing I was sure of was that I didn't want a diesel (I don't like the characteristics of diesels or that the fuel stinks and if you get it on your hands when refuelling it lasts all day).
It was thoroughly depressing.
I ended up with this
2.5 turbo, 220bhp. Only 36k miles and one owner from new.
I'd estimate that less than 10% of the cars on display were petrols. The one thing I was sure of was that I didn't want a diesel (I don't like the characteristics of diesels or that the fuel stinks and if you get it on your hands when refuelling it lasts all day).
It was thoroughly depressing.
I ended up with this
2.5 turbo, 220bhp. Only 36k miles and one owner from new.
Great Q-car the S40 T5.
I agree about the march of the diesel though, I was mooching around a few places while my OH was doing some shopping and the only petrols on the BMW forecourt were Z4s or 116is, and on the VW lot there were a couple of 1.2 Polos and that was it. I had to applaud one of my colleagues who recently bought a Passat 2.0TSi, it's the only petrol Passat I've ever seen!!
I agree about the march of the diesel though, I was mooching around a few places while my OH was doing some shopping and the only petrols on the BMW forecourt were Z4s or 116is, and on the VW lot there were a couple of 1.2 Polos and that was it. I had to applaud one of my colleagues who recently bought a Passat 2.0TSi, it's the only petrol Passat I've ever seen!!
Too right, but unfortunately for some of us due to our limited pockets and the miles we cover, a diesel does make sense. I clung onto a nice 6 cylinder petrol as a D/D for as long as I could, but I was spending £500 pcm just in fuel! This was when I was a wet behind the ears apprentice, so my salary wasn't much more than that. I will go back one day soon, I promise.
Sam.F said:
Great Q-car the S40 T5.
I agree about the march of the diesel though, I was mooching around a few places while my OH was doing some shopping and the only petrols on the BMW forecourt were Z4s or 116is, and on the VW lot there were a couple of 1.2 Polos and that was it. I had to applaud one of my colleagues who recently bought a Passat 2.0TSi, it's the only petrol Passat I've ever seen!!
I saw a petrol Passat the other day, I was amazed!I agree about the march of the diesel though, I was mooching around a few places while my OH was doing some shopping and the only petrols on the BMW forecourt were Z4s or 116is, and on the VW lot there were a couple of 1.2 Polos and that was it. I had to applaud one of my colleagues who recently bought a Passat 2.0TSi, it's the only petrol Passat I've ever seen!!
Actually, the march of the diesel is being stopped. Over the last year or so there's been a lot of disquiet about the non CO2 pollutants that come out of a diesel. In order to get them cleaner they've become incredibly complex. Allied to that, petrol engines have taken a big step (3 pot in the Focus as an example) and all of a sudden fleet buyers are starting to look at petrol again. It'll take a couple of years until that filters through to the nearly new market though.
You despair for the motoring population because they drive diesels and eco boxes?
I despair for you for lacking the human traits of empathy and understanding.
If everyone were petrolheads, and then buying boring cars, yes that would be a shame but as it is OP, they aren't.
Oh and also don't moan about lack of engine choices if you buy second hand..Its up to the first owner to get something that suits them, not buy something innapropriate to help out the bloke whos going to be driving it in 5 years time.
Rant over.
I despair for you for lacking the human traits of empathy and understanding.
If everyone were petrolheads, and then buying boring cars, yes that would be a shame but as it is OP, they aren't.
Oh and also don't moan about lack of engine choices if you buy second hand..Its up to the first owner to get something that suits them, not buy something innapropriate to help out the bloke whos going to be driving it in 5 years time.
Rant over.
Very nice. Keep the faith.
The good news is that if you can find a nice large-engined petrol the hysteria has reached such a crescendo that they can be cheap as chips.
The only problem is that they can be also like hens' teeth.
If I don't want the extreme of an E55/E63 I may be forced into a chug-a-bug when I replace my E Class :-(
The good news is that if you can find a nice large-engined petrol the hysteria has reached such a crescendo that they can be cheap as chips.
The only problem is that they can be also like hens' teeth.
If I don't want the extreme of an E55/E63 I may be forced into a chug-a-bug when I replace my E Class :-(
Nice choice, OP 
The benefits are starting to be heavily outweighed by the ever-increasing complexity and associated cost, and it won't take long before lots of expensive failures in five-year-old examples of today's modern diesels start to put people off. Eventually the general public will start to engage their brains and realise that, actually, paying the premium to buy a diesel car and the associated risks simply isn't worth it for them and their mileage - and that's without going into a petrol engine being a far sweeter thing anyway.
It will take a couple more years yet, though.
I'm waiting for the abrupt U-turn on the whole carbon dioxide emissions bulls
t. It so happens that the automotive industry has cut its noxious emissions by 99% - yes, really - in the past 40 years, and I really do struggle to imagine any other industry to achieve anything like that. If carbon dioxide is such a problem, ban jogging. Anyone else noticed how quiet the whole global warming lobby has got recently? Because everyone involved quietly took note of very established scientists saying the idea of us causing climate change in such a way was a complete crock.
If governments finally do wake up and realise that carbon dioxide exhaust emissions are far from the most salient point about a car's environmental impact, and penalise other more harmful pollutants, diesels could be rendered untenable.
davepoth said:
Actually, the march of the diesel is being stopped. Over the last year or so there's been a lot of disquiet about the non CO2 pollutants that come out of a diesel. In order to get them cleaner they've become incredibly complex. Allied to that, petrol engines have taken a big step (3 pot in the Focus as an example) and all of a sudden fleet buyers are starting to look at petrol again. It'll take a couple of years until that filters through to the nearly new market though.
This.The benefits are starting to be heavily outweighed by the ever-increasing complexity and associated cost, and it won't take long before lots of expensive failures in five-year-old examples of today's modern diesels start to put people off. Eventually the general public will start to engage their brains and realise that, actually, paying the premium to buy a diesel car and the associated risks simply isn't worth it for them and their mileage - and that's without going into a petrol engine being a far sweeter thing anyway.
It will take a couple more years yet, though.
I'm waiting for the abrupt U-turn on the whole carbon dioxide emissions bulls
t. It so happens that the automotive industry has cut its noxious emissions by 99% - yes, really - in the past 40 years, and I really do struggle to imagine any other industry to achieve anything like that. If carbon dioxide is such a problem, ban jogging. Anyone else noticed how quiet the whole global warming lobby has got recently? Because everyone involved quietly took note of very established scientists saying the idea of us causing climate change in such a way was a complete crock.If governments finally do wake up and realise that carbon dioxide exhaust emissions are far from the most salient point about a car's environmental impact, and penalise other more harmful pollutants, diesels could be rendered untenable.
cld also be a large rise in diesel price due to shipping requiring more of it..due to:
http://www.british-shipping.org/News/parliamentary...
http://www.british-shipping.org/News/parliamentary...
The diesel on hands thing - really??
I've had my first diesel for around 4 years now and not once has that crossed my mind or been an issue in any way.
Surely most car supermarket stock is all ex-fleet / lease /rental so there's a much higher percentage of diesels. But you're right, diesel is very much in the mainstream now.
I've had my first diesel for around 4 years now and not once has that crossed my mind or been an issue in any way.
Surely most car supermarket stock is all ex-fleet / lease /rental so there's a much higher percentage of diesels. But you're right, diesel is very much in the mainstream now.
If governments finally do wake up and realise that carbon dioxide exhaust emissions are far from the most salient point about a car's environmental impact, and penalise other more harmful pollutants, diesels could be rendered untenable.
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This - probably sums it up. When the governments stop promoting/supporting the motor industry shifting new motors and get us some investment into super efficient super clean and fit for life retrofit engines I will start to take notice.
Until then I guess I will continue to cruise arround in my V8 in the smug knowledge that its whole life carbon footprint is lower than most cars on the road. Toyota Pious anyone?
Nice car.
To link the T5 and the general public's love affair with diesels, when I got my 850 T5 (which has a fruity exhaust), my brother in law jumped in and, when I started the engine, he asked if it was a diesel. He was being serious.
Here is a video of the exhaust:
http://youtu.be/XeCwbFtW2g8
Similarly when I got my V8 XJR, which also has a sports exhaust, he asked if it was a diesel again. Same again with my V8 Range Rover Classic.
95% of people I know are only interested in the mpg a car does and the number of seats it has, and nothing else.
Fair enough, I say. Cars are a hobby and an interest to me, and there are plenty of other hobbies that I know nothing about.
To link the T5 and the general public's love affair with diesels, when I got my 850 T5 (which has a fruity exhaust), my brother in law jumped in and, when I started the engine, he asked if it was a diesel. He was being serious.
Here is a video of the exhaust:
http://youtu.be/XeCwbFtW2g8
Similarly when I got my V8 XJR, which also has a sports exhaust, he asked if it was a diesel again. Same again with my V8 Range Rover Classic.
95% of people I know are only interested in the mpg a car does and the number of seats it has, and nothing else.
Fair enough, I say. Cars are a hobby and an interest to me, and there are plenty of other hobbies that I know nothing about.
davepoth said:
Actually, the march of the diesel is being stopped. Over the last year or so there's been a lot of disquiet about the non CO2 pollutants that come out of a diesel. In order to get them cleaner they've become incredibly complex. Allied to that, petrol engines have taken a big step (3 pot in the Focus as an example) and all of a sudden fleet buyers are starting to look at petrol again. It'll take a couple of years until that filters through to the nearly new market though.
Its been going on for several years. Manufacturers know that its going to be unviable to put diesel engines into anything smaller than say, the mondeo class, due to the cost of making the engines 'clean', therefore we're seeing engines like to the new Ford 1.0 ecoboost.McSam said:
If governments finally do wake up and realise that carbon dioxide exhaust emissions are far from the most salient point about a car's environmental impact, and penalise other more harmful pollutants, diesels could be rendered untenable.
And you really think fuel tax pricing by governments has anything to do with the environment and everything to do with how much they can screw out of us?daemon said:
Its been going on for several years. Manufacturers know that its going to be unviable to put diesel engines into anything smaller than say, the mondeo class, due to the cost of making the engines 'clean', therefore we're seeing engines like to the new Ford 1.0 ecoboost.
Not to mention the weight - if you can get good drive cycle figures from a tiny petrol, and still make it satisfactory to drive, that's massively better for the whole car. Suddenly you can have lighter engine mounts, lighter suspension components, a lower-rated gearbox.. indirect benefits from avoiding a diesel engine, especially in small cars, are huge.As for the reasons behind the taxing - yeah, of course. But it may not take long for them to realise that there are now so many allegedly "clean" diesels knocking around, that they're the best thing to tax next
and whatever the aims of the government in setting the brackets, they need to have some reason that they can give to the public. If people stop accepting that "low CO2" and "clean" are the same thing, then the current system will need revising..I do like the Big Torque driving of a big oil burner.
I also agree that the added complexity to try and make them as clean/refined as a petrol motor has removed a lot of the cost advantages of them.
Most of the big bills on my D5 simply would not have been an issue on a T5.
I have a 2002 with a Euro 3 motor in it and that`s as modern a diesel as I will ever have.
I dread to think how much of a money pit a ten year old Euro 6 would be!
Next motor is likely to be a nice petrol W123/W124.
I also agree that the added complexity to try and make them as clean/refined as a petrol motor has removed a lot of the cost advantages of them.
Most of the big bills on my D5 simply would not have been an issue on a T5.
I have a 2002 with a Euro 3 motor in it and that`s as modern a diesel as I will ever have.
I dread to think how much of a money pit a ten year old Euro 6 would be!
Next motor is likely to be a nice petrol W123/W124.
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