Nissan 'steer-by-wire'

[Welshwonder]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19979380

So these people want us to be 'insulated' from what (in my opinion) is probably the most important thing in a car - steering feedback. You won't really know that the soaking wet surface you're driving on has diesel all over it until you fail to make it around the next corner. What are they thinking?

I really do fear the worst for future petrolheads, if developments like this catch on. Driverless cars, drive by wire, road trains.... Where's the fun?

I'd love to know peoples thoughts on this!

[Leptons]

Interesting but not for me thanks!

[interloper]

"In addition it suggested that the development would "insulate" motorists from disturbances caused by unnecessary feedback."

That's a big "no thanks" from me as well. Actually I'm pretty sure this is banned under construction and use regs in this country anyway, as you have to have a direct mechanical link between the steering wheel/control and the front wheels.

[thinfourth2]

interloper said:

"In addition it suggested that the development would "insulate" motorists from disturbances caused by unnecessary feedback."

That's a big "no thanks" from me as well. Actually I'm pretty sure this is banned under construction and use regs in this country anyway, as you have to have a direct mechanical link between the steering wheel/control and the front wheels.

Not illegal

If its a tractor and limited to 20mph

[crazy about cars]

I can see how this could benefit eco cars or some diesels but definitely not for a more driver orientated car...

[thinfourth2]

crazy about cars said:

I can see how this could benefit eco cars

How?

Its heavier and more complicated then a unassisted rack and pinion

[fat freddie]

GR8 idea, I mean it's not as if anything has ever gone wrong with electronic throttle pedals is it?

[Tunku]

My mind boggled at the Nissan engineer's point about being able to place the wheel wherever they wanted, like the back seat.

[crazy about cars]

thinfourth2 said:

How?

Its heavier and more complicated then a unassisted rack and pinion

Good point but if a car is designed from scratch with this in mind the whole package would work in harmony to maximise output and minimise waste.

I remember when people where saying how the manual boxes will never be replaced there will be no better performing box compared to manual boxes and ABS is just a cumbersome addition...

Not saying I agree with drive by wire steering but just think it's part of the advancement of technology and will be beneficial in some form.

[xreyuk]

Fighter jets have been fly by wire for years. Surely if its good enough for jet fighters, it's good enough for cars?

[Tunku]

xreyuk said:

Fighter jets have been fly by wire for years. Surely if its good enough for jet fighters, it's good enough for cars?

Fighter jets have ejector seats.

[TankRizzo]

xreyuk said:

Fighter jets have been fly by wire for years. Surely if its good enough for jet fighters, it's good enough for cars?

Fighter jets are generally overengineered not to go wrong. Contrast this with the failure rates of parts on everyday cars, and ask yourself if you want to be in a situation where you have no idea which way the wheels are going to go whilst doing 80mph...

[supertouring]

TankRizzo said:

xreyuk said:

Fighter jets have been fly by wire for years. Surely if its good enough for jet fighters, it's good enough for cars?

Fighter jets are generally overengineered not to go wrong. Contrast this with the failure rates of parts on everyday cars, and ask yourself if you want to be in a situation where you have no idea which way the wheels are pointing whilst doing 80mph...

Fighter jets also need computers between cockpit and controls just to keep it in the air.

[4key]

xreyuk said:

Fighter jets have been fly by wire for years. Surely if its good enough for jet fighters, it's good enough for cars?

+1 If I am going to crash I want it to be in the style of a big fighter jet fireball

[VxDuncan]

Currently not possible to get European type approval of a passenger car without a physical connection between the handwheel and the roadwheels. I'd be amazed if this "backup hydraulic system" can meet the requirements of type approval. Therefore I don't think Nissan could sell this, even if they wanted to.

There are advantages to a steer by wire system - extreme variable ratios (ie one-turn lock to lock for parking), torque overlay for lane guidance, augmented feedback and even full override, say in emergency avoidance systems. With steer-by-wire you can help a driver countersteer when they've lost the back-end on snow, help them avoid a obstacle in the road that the radar has detected by the driver can't see in dense fog etc. These things won't happen overnight, but steer-by-wire in an "enabling technology", that will help them happen. Much like GPS enables satellite navigation, vehicle tracking etc happen.

The current trend is for increasingly assisted, increasing numb steering (the audi affect). This actually has the possibility of reversing the trend.

[thinfourth2]

Tunku said:

xreyuk said:

Fighter jets have been fly by wire for years. Surely if its good enough for jet fighters, it's good enough for cars?

Fighter jets have ejector seats.

And tend to be kind of pricey.

[Negative Creep]

supertouring said:

TankRizzo said:

xreyuk said:

Fighter jets have been fly by wire for years. Surely if its good enough for jet fighters, it's good enough for cars?

Fighter jets are generally overengineered not to go wrong. Contrast this with the failure rates of parts on everyday cars, and ask yourself if you want to be in a situation where you have no idea which way the wheels are pointing whilst doing 80mph...

Fighter jets also need computers between cockpit and controls just to keep it in the air.

Not to mention highly skilled pilots and rigorous checks and maintenance after every use.

[Timberwolf]

Certainly interesting. The jet comparison is maybe a bit blasé as maintenance and inspection schedules are generally a lot better than those of the private motorist unless you're in a third world country flying on some 28-seat two engine... one engine... there we go, two again plane.

Failover is a bit of a sticking point. Citroen's DIRAVI system, which was hydraulic drive-by-"wire" in normal usage still fell back to mechanical on pressure loss, this has a clutched backup but sounds as if Nissan want to remove that eventually. Then again I've been in a car where hydraulic power assisted steering unexpectedly failed, you don't have much control authority even if you know what's happened as you're fighting a quick steering ratio and the pump. Not much is still a sight better than none, though!

Amused by the comment about replacing the wheel with a joystick. I remember SAAB trying that as a prototype in the early '90s...

[Tunku]

thinfourth2 said:

Tunku said:

xreyuk said:

Fighter jets have been fly by wire for years. Surely if its good enough for jet fighters, it's good enough for cars?

Fighter jets have ejector seats.

And tend to be kind of pricey.

Actually ejector seats in cars might be a bad idea. Imagine a motorway pileup, the air ambulance wouldn't be able to get anywhere near it. Finding the injured would be a nightmare if it was blowing a gale.

[thinfourth2]

Tunku said:

Actually ejector seats in cars might be a bad idea. Imagine a motorway pileup, the air ambulance wouldn't be able to get anywhere near it. Finding the injured would be a nightmare if it was blowing a gale.

Tunnels