Overdue Cambelt
Discussion
Would you buy a car that has missed the cambelt change interval by 2 years/40000 miles? Going by the manufacturers specifications of course.
Reason I ask is because I am looking at buying a 2006 Polo (1.4) and the owner says its been an oversight by him and he only realised when I told him. He's owned it for 2 years. On startup it did make a chirping noise which went away after 10 seconds. Should I walk away? He has factored a change into the price.
Otherwise the car seems clean and genuine as does the guy. Apart from some dull paint on the wing.
Reason I ask is because I am looking at buying a 2006 Polo (1.4) and the owner says its been an oversight by him and he only realised when I told him. He's owned it for 2 years. On startup it did make a chirping noise which went away after 10 seconds. Should I walk away? He has factored a change into the price.
Otherwise the car seems clean and genuine as does the guy. Apart from some dull paint on the wing.
Devil's advocate - neglect in maintenace, dull paint on the wing could mean a cheap respray after a knock.
Petrolhead, er, head - if it's survived so far, a new cam belt will keep it running longer.
The test I'd use is to ask him what tyres the car is on, and how often he checks the oil. If he knows (roughly) what tyres the car's running and how often he's had it serviced/checked the oil himself, it's probably a car that's had some modicum of care taken over it. If he has no idea what the tyres are and they're all mismatched, as well as not being able to read a dipstick, then walk away.
Petrolhead, er, head - if it's survived so far, a new cam belt will keep it running longer.
The test I'd use is to ask him what tyres the car is on, and how often he checks the oil. If he knows (roughly) what tyres the car's running and how often he's had it serviced/checked the oil himself, it's probably a car that's had some modicum of care taken over it. If he has no idea what the tyres are and they're all mismatched, as well as not being able to read a dipstick, then walk away.
He's been honest enough to admit to his oversight - but any dealer/garage worth their salt should have been advising him of the cambelt interval and pestering him to get it done, so perhaps it hasn't been serviced as often/as well as it should be?
I'd get him to do the cambelt at his cost at a trusted dealership, and demand a receipt for it and the tensioners etc (if required) too. Or else just find another car that has had the cambelt done and has a more careful owner?
I'd get him to do the cambelt at his cost at a trusted dealership, and demand a receipt for it and the tensioners etc (if required) too. Or else just find another car that has had the cambelt done and has a more careful owner?
MX7 said:
Screw him on the price, drive it home very carefully, and then get a full service.
If it hasn't gone, it hasn't done any damage.
Driving carefully will make absolutely zero difference, it will either go or it wont.If it hasn't gone, it hasn't done any damage.
How much did you manage to knock off the price, OP?
Personally, if the price was right i'd buy it anyway, but depending on other factors.
the chirping sound is unlikely to be the cambelt, as if that slips you are buggered, most likely it is the fanbelt, which is worn or too loose.
A cambelt times the valves and the pistons, so they dont have a fight (the piston normally wins), while a fanbelt runs your fan and alternator etc.
a late service shouldn't be too much to worry about, as long as you are careful, and get it done sooner rather than later.
easy mistake to mind if you haven't spent time elbow deep in engines rather than clunge...
OT but why dont modern cars use cam chains like Triumphs and what not used to?
A cambelt times the valves and the pistons, so they dont have a fight (the piston normally wins), while a fanbelt runs your fan and alternator etc.
a late service shouldn't be too much to worry about, as long as you are careful, and get it done sooner rather than later.
easy mistake to mind if you haven't spent time elbow deep in engines rather than clunge...
OT but why dont modern cars use cam chains like Triumphs and what not used to?
Agrispeed said:
OT but why dont modern cars use cam chains like Triumphs and what not used to?
Cost mainly. Belts are much less difficult to engineer in, a simple spring tensioner and no lubrication required. They work well and are easier to replace.Why would a "first owner" care, anyway? The vast majority of cars are changed at three years when leases end and they start needing MOT's, well within the time/interval for a cam belt change. No-one is really going to change their purchase decision on whether it needs a cambelt at 60k miles or a timing chain perhaps never. It only becomes important later in the cars life when you're umming and ahhing over what big ticket items could fail on a 130,000 mile shed for £1k.
And plenty of cars do have cam chains - some audis, vauxhalls, BMW's.
Ford Zetecs have chains now, although the early ones have belts. Chain drives also tend to be slightly noisier than belts, which obviously the average customer in the showroom tends to prefer.
As mentioned above, the chirp will be the auxiliary drive belt. You might have trouble finding the belt driving the fan though, so look for the alternator instead, and give the belt a wiggle (with the engine off) it should move no more than +/- an inch or so. Easy to sort. Some cracking of the rubber is normal in ageing, just so long as no lumps have fallen off. Either way, it won't have any effect on your cam belt.
As mentioned above, the chirp will be the auxiliary drive belt. You might have trouble finding the belt driving the fan though, so look for the alternator instead, and give the belt a wiggle (with the engine off) it should move no more than +/- an inch or so. Easy to sort. Some cracking of the rubber is normal in ageing, just so long as no lumps have fallen off. Either way, it won't have any effect on your cam belt.
doogz said:
Excuse my ignorance, but why not? The more torque at the crank, the higher the tensile load applied to the belt, the more likely it is to snap.
Agree. It's the same with all engine components. You stress them more, and they are more likely to break. Drive it back reasonably carefully, and you'd have to be quite unlucky for it to snap.I wouldn't say 'absolutely zero difference' because as doogz says the belt is put under greater strain under rapid fluctuations in RPM- the tension will be at it's greatest when the belt is rapidly accelerating the valvetrain. However, if the belt is imminently going to fail then driving 'gently' is unlikely to save it.
The Polo isn't a rare car and te overdue service isn't the car's only problem. Look elsewhere.
The Polo isn't a rare car and te overdue service isn't the car's only problem. Look elsewhere.
NR123 said:
Thanks for all the replies. I just rang VW who said the cambelt was change in 2009. However she also said it had the engine head rebuilt, which was paid for by the customer. Best avoided now?
Well its ran for 3 years since and has a couple more before its due again, I wouldn't say avoid but its agreat bargaining tool!MX7 said:
Agree. It's the same with all engine components. You stress them more, and they are more likely to break. Drive it back reasonably carefully, and you'd have to be quite unlucky for it to snap.
Sorry to interfer, but i know a little about this, and i would like to explain a little regarding valve train momentum & energy. The higher revving of the engine will actually DECREASE the load/strain on the timing belt, lower revving will INCREASE the load/strain on the timing belt.the basics are, the valves are opened via the cams, but closed via the spring, the spring is constantly being squashed, so the cam lobe is pushing against this spring, if it can open the valve quickly, the valve and components (followers etc) will have more momentum and will not put so much resistance into the rest of the valve train (camshaft/timing belt etc) the spring pressure increases the more it gets squashed so the faster the components are moving, the easier it is to overcome this 'resistance'
Imagine your pushing a car towards a speed bump, if you push it at walking pace, you will reach the bump and it will be difficult to push over, but if you push it and get it to a jogging pace, it will have momentum and need much less effort from you when it reaches the bump. - simples!
**i am not saying that by red-lining the engine all the time will make it more reliable!**
Callmedave
markCSC said:
Agrispeed said:
a fanbelt runs your fan and alternator etc.
Do cars still have belt driven fans? I thought these were all electric now.
callmedave said:
Sorry to interfer, but i know a little about this, and i would like to explain a little regarding valve train momentum & energy. The higher revving of the engine will actually DECREASE the load/strain on the timing belt, lower revving will INCREASE the load/strain on the timing belt.
I didn't mention high or low revs. I said drive it carefully. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff