Uk - Gibraltar Selling a car to an overseas buyer!

[kk3960]

I have a gentleman interested in a car that im selling who lives in Gibraltar, he is keen to make a bank transfer called a "Swift" payment from a Gibraltar bank to my UK Bank and have someone collect the car on his behalf 36Hrs after the transfer. I have contacted my uk bank who have advised to allow 24Hrs to let the transaction complete as "available funds".

Once these funds have been cleared can the transaction be recalled in any way or form? I have suggested a CHAPS transfer which i have used before but the JYSKE Bank in Gibraltar only undertakes "swift" payments.

Anyone have any experience of this?

Thanks

[Cupramax]

Bank transfer payment, check, collecting agent, check, scam, check....

[Benmac]

Errrrm, you do realise that this is a scam don't you?

[C8LNJ]

[Cupramax]

Monies

[sunbeam alpine]

In fairness, it might not be a scam. Swift is a normal bank transfer. If they mention Western Union or Paypal, run a mile!

I'm based in Belgium and have bought cars from abroad using the method you mention. When I've done it it's been for not "run of the mill" cars, and I get a friend to collect them as he's got a transport company and it costs me a lot less than collecting it myself.

When I've done this it's been accompanied by lots of exchanges of photo's of the vehicle and telephone discussions. I'm well aware that it's getting more difficult to win confidence once people hear you're from overseas.

You don't say in your post what sort of car it is. If it's a car which is easy to sell, or a very common model, maybe you should be more suspicious/reluctant. If it's something rare/difficult to sell, it will probably be a genuine buyer.

Second hand cars are very cheap in the UK compared with most of the rest of Europe (I know nothing about Gibraltar however). I think if the UK had LHD cars, half of Pistonheads and Autotrader ads would be for export.

[kk3960]

Ive contacted his Bank in Gib. and he has sent me a photocopy of his passport, they indeed undertake Swift payments. When i contacted Natwest they just said wait 24HRS which I intend to do. Now my question was can the money be extracted from my account once its been funded? Im obviously not going to let the car go until I have cleared funds.

Edited by kk3960 on Monday 22 October 19:42

[Cupramax]

Seriously,it's not worth the risk. These payments can still bounce. money transfer and collecting agent is a classic scam and you end up with no money and no car. justify it to yourself all you want. It's you thatll be out of pocket.

[kk3960]

I appreciate the comments but he wants to collect the car from my home, and is happy for the funds to clear my account first. I will check with the bank that the funds are available to extract so what would be the risk once the funds have hit a UK account?

Thanks

[Cupramax]

kk3960 said:

so what would be the risk once the funds have hit a UK account?

Thanks

The simple fact that they can be fraudulent and then withdrawn once your car has sailed into the sunset.

[kk3960]

What can be fraudulent? the money has to be put into an account before it can be transferred and cleared? Just like any other payment surely?

[sunbeam alpine]

kk3960 said:

Ive contacted his Bank in Gib. and he has sent me a photocopy of his passport, they indeed undertake Swift payments. When i contacted Natwest they just said wait 24HRS which I intend to do. Now my question was can the money be extracted from my account once its been funded? Im obviously not going to let the car go until I have cleared funds.

Edited by kk3960 on Monday 22 October 19:42

How did you contact his bank - by e-mail or phone? Did you use details supplied by the buyer or did you look them up yourself?

What car is it?

[holmwood37]

Hi,

I'm replying to this forum as I think I have just had the privelidge of having some correspondance with Mr. Helgason and because I was dubious I 'Googled' it and this was the only forum on the net which helped me. So, I thought I would join 'Pistonheads' (even though I couldn't give a st about cars) to add to it in the hope that this thread may help someone else not get scammed.

I'm selling my UK Volvo here in Malta where I work and was contacted by a text message linking me to a Gmail account. I shall cut and paste the messages at the end of my waffle but essentially it all read the same as the previous persons dealing. As he mentioned to me he was a Marine Engineer I asked him for his Seamans Card. He said no but then sent me his Passport copy which I just got now. I'm just in the process of finding out which bank he uses (don't worry I'm not going to go through with it) but I think the scam lays with the time frame it takes for the money to clear? he mentioned the money will take 2-3 days to clear and then he'll probably delay this too? Anyway, I hope this helps who ever is contacted next by him. By the way, the name given is an Icelandic musician
_________________________________________
Hi,

Thanks you for your email...2250 Euro is nice and acceptable good price for the Car..I'm interested in immediate purchase of this Car..How long have you owned it? When last was it serviced and what is the body condition of Car?...Awaiting your response soon...

Sincerely,
Mr.Helgason
____________________________________________________
Hi,

Thanks you for your email...Do you still have the original logbook papers which show that you are rightful owner of the car...I would appreciate if you could send me some more pictures and capture all the scratches and imperfections of the car's body for me to fully confirm its present condition (if available), so i can have a better idea of what I'm buying from you before i make the payment, since i won't be able to come and test drive the car in person at your address...

I will be making use of a shipping agent from here to have the car pick up in your home address/nearest port and have it delivered to my home address...

With the issue of a copy of my identification, documents,transferring the name of ownership and signing of all paper works will be done by the shipper on my behalf, so you don't have to worry about the shipment...Further arrangements will be made with you in concerns to the Car pick up once you have fully receive the money cleared in your PayPal account...

I'll be looking forward to hearing back from you soon...

Best Regards,
Mr.Helgason
__________________________________________________________________
Hi,

Thanks you for your Email...I reside in Malta...Please take more pictures of the car with the picture of its Engine and send it to my email in order for me to have a better idea of what am buying from you before i will make the payment...I would like you to know that i have already arrange for the shipment with the shipping agent and shipper will handle all the shipping preparation/all legal paper work regarding the Car export...

In the mean time I'm checking with the authority on the document needed by the shipper for the transfer of the ownership of the car, so we won't have any problems when the shipper will come to collect it, once i have everything in order i will ask you to send your PayPal account for the agreed amount...I will be looking forward to reading back from you soon..

Best Regards,
Mr.Helgason
______________________________________________________________________
Hi Chris,

Thanks you for your Email...The car will be transported to Gibraltar...I won't be able to inspect the car in your address due to the nature of my work as i work on passenger ship as marine engineer...Please send me the photos of the car in order for me to have a better idea of what am buying from you...

Regards,
Mr.Helgason
____________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Chris,

Thanks you for your mail....I received the photos of the car that you sent...I really appreciate the time that you dedicated to take the Photos...I'm totally Satisfied with the present condition of the Car...

I manage to checked with the transport authority concerning the documents that is needed and most probably the shipper will come and go with to the transportation office to arrange the paperwork and other necessary document..I was told that usually the transfer goes from you to the shipper and then when the car gets to destination the shipper will make another transfer to my own name...

The shipper will sign the transfer of all the registration documents onto my name and the shipper will go to the transport office where the vehicle sale-trade contract will be signed/certified...The shipping agent will also go to the customs were the export documentation is being prepared and signed...As well the shipper will visiting the road traffic control administration where the car will being removed from the transport authority records and transit number plates are issued...

From my side the shipper need to sign the certification of ownership on my behalf and that's it...I will give Original copy of my Photo ID cards to the shipping agent as identification to transfer the vehicle on my name...

A Copy of sales contact and a authority letter from the lawyer will be brought by the shipping agent to fill up as a prove from me and the shipper will bring a new set of plates number to picked up the Car..The shipping agent will contact you once i have settle the payment with you, i will advise you to give me your PayPal email account details for the payment of the car as soon as possible....I'll be looking forward to hearing back from you soon....

Best Regards,
Mr.Helgason
____________________________________________________________
Hi,

Thanks you for your Email...Here are the details needed to make the bank transfer as follows: -

ACCOUNT HOLDER NAME: -
IBAN NUMBER: -
SWIFT NUMBER: -
BANK NAME:
CONTACT NUMBER: -
PRICE AGREED: -

I want you to know that the car payment will be made through a bank transfer and the payment will not take no less than 2-3 business days for you to cash the money from your Bank...I'll make the payment as soon as i receive the above details complete...Attached is the copy of my passport as per your request...Awaiting for your response soon..

Regards,
Mr.Helgason

[confused_buyer]

If every bank transfer was dodgy then not a single bit of business would take place in the world.

You can't do a CHAPS transfer from outside the UK as CHAPS is a system only between UK on-shore banks. SWIFT is the international equivalent.

On the face of it, it sounds it could be legit. There are plenty of cars knocking around Gibralter which originated from the UK despite them driving on the right.

Just do sensible checks that the account it comes from is the same is the buyer, contact the bank in Gibralter and verify the account and do not let the car go until the funds are available as per the advice of your bank.