Why Aren't all Buses Hybrids?
Discussion
I'm going to take a stab at:
a) we already have a large fleet of existing buses that have plenty of useful life left
and
b) when it comes to buying new buses I'd imagine that hybrid ones probably cost a substantial amount more and it's difficult to justify that on anything other than green-PR?
a) we already have a large fleet of existing buses that have plenty of useful life left
and
b) when it comes to buying new buses I'd imagine that hybrid ones probably cost a substantial amount more and it's difficult to justify that on anything other than green-PR?
They cost like hell. But trolley buses with small batteries(to drive off the electric line routes) are the future.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolleybus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolleybus
Buses have a useful life of 15-20 years, with the BSOG being severely cut (was 25% in wales, down to 15% now I believe) and other costs going up only the large companies to afford to invest heavily in hybrids, mostly for green PR.
Where I work at a fairly large (250 buses) company we have an average fleet age of about 8 years, the oldest being S reg and the newest 59 plate scanias. The scanias being bought by the previous MD as they presented a good image and they could boast about the low emissions - however they do around 5-6mpg on a good day! The oldest ones are 5 years old now and smoke like f
k!
It's amazing how long buses can last for, the company I used to work for run buses they bought off my current employer (just repainted last week, http://i.imgur.com/TUfwe.jpg ) - 30 years old and they drive better and rattle much less than the modern (2008) buses they replaced them with. They do twice the MPG of modern volvo equivalents!
Where I work at a fairly large (250 buses) company we have an average fleet age of about 8 years, the oldest being S reg and the newest 59 plate scanias. The scanias being bought by the previous MD as they presented a good image and they could boast about the low emissions - however they do around 5-6mpg on a good day! The oldest ones are 5 years old now and smoke like f
k!It's amazing how long buses can last for, the company I used to work for run buses they bought off my current employer (just repainted last week, http://i.imgur.com/TUfwe.jpg ) - 30 years old and they drive better and rattle much less than the modern (2008) buses they replaced them with. They do twice the MPG of modern volvo equivalents!
Loads in London. They've been appearing over the last 2-3 years.
301 to be precise http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes...
301 to be precise http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes...
AC43 said:
Loads in London. They've been appearing over the last 2-3 years.
301 to be precise http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes...
When they're too old for london (8-10 years I think?) they'll start making their way around the UK i'd imagine. 301 to be precise http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes...
IroningMan said:
Primarily because 5 years ago we woke up to the realisation of what happens when we spend more than we earn and that living beyond one's means and making the population debt wes to foreign states was moronic. 
£170,000 for a brand new Volvo B9TL, the ball park figure I've heard for the Hybrid equivalent is £440,000. Also the seating capacity is slightly less (all those batteries have to go somewhere).
Also as in terms of driving they are quite slow (only have a 5L engine instead of the normal 9L), with a top speed of only around 45mph.
However their numbers will increase as the technology improves.
ETA: They spend less time on battery power than you might think. Due to the nature of driving for a bus and it all being stop start driving, the batteries never really get chance to charge. They spend most of their time on engine power.
Also as in terms of driving they are quite slow (only have a 5L engine instead of the normal 9L), with a top speed of only around 45mph.
However their numbers will increase as the technology improves.
ETA: They spend less time on battery power than you might think. Due to the nature of driving for a bus and it all being stop start driving, the batteries never really get chance to charge. They spend most of their time on engine power.
Edited by TheTurbonator on Wednesday 24th October 16:45
ShampooEfficient said:
Buses have a useful life of up to 20 years, so it takes time to filter them down.
That and according to the bus depot manager in the family - the fact that hybrid buses aren't ideal for all routes/uses.In cities, buses spend all day slogging in traffic but outside cities some buses cover huge distances (his longest jobcarded bus does north of 450 miles in a day - his average is over 250) have to deal with hills and dales and motorways and 1-bus-wide lanes and the current hybrid offerings are (he says) not ideal for some of that.
Living close to Tyne and Wear - we saw how public transport should be done with the Integrated Transport solution around the Metro, before Thatcher and her buddies ruined it. A tram/trolley-based rapid-transit system with buses working in-sync is what you needed - what we have now is a mess.
Competition for buses was a stupid idea - hasn't worked - and privatisation has pushed UK public transport to the edge of extinction in general - you sometimes wonder if that was the plan really...
TheTurbonator said:
ETA: They spend less time on battery power than you might think. Due to the nature of driving for a bus and it all being stop start driving, the batteries never really get chance to charge. They spend most of their time on engine power.
Indeed, nothing says it has to run on pure EV anyway, its just a enabler of a massive step in engine downsizing.Edited by TheTurbonator on Wednesday 24th October 16:45
gshughes said:
405dogvan said:
Living close to Tyne and Wear - we saw how public transport should be done with the Integrated Transport solution around the Metro, before Thatcher and her buddies ruined it.
What's wrong with the Metro? I've been pretty impressed whenever I've used it.As soon as they introduced competition, all the buses avoided the Metro by as far as they could and they all headed into Newcastle again - the difference in peak-hour traffic was really noticeable too.
The Metro itself is great (tho maintenance looms over the system with some major work required) as far as it goes - but the 'boundary' of Tyne and Wear and the change of funding etc. excluded a lot of places it SHOULD have gone (Cramlington and northwards - Low Fell-wards etc. etc.)
It wasn't just the Metro tho - mate of mine lived in the west end and said that before privatisation there was only 1 bus in and out of town - but after privatisation there were 4. He was dead chuffed, for the 3 months it took for the 4 to return to 1 which ran half-as-often and cost twice-as-much.
That's privatisation in a nutshell I reckon
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