Garages, wheel nuts and windyguns

[Fubar1977]

Why is it that every time my cars been in the garage and had the wheels off for any reason, the grease monkeys always insist on zipping the damn wheel nuts up so fking tight you need a 4 foot breaker bar to get them off again.
Is it really such a chore to torque them up properly?
Mine are supposed to be done to 100nm not 3000 ffs.
I understand you can put a torque bit on the gun so why not do it properly?

If I`d had to try changing the wheel at the roadside with just a basic "spider" I`d have had no chance.

Lazy bds.

[Manicminer]

I don't understand why you don't tell them, you're paying for a service after all.

I always insist they do mine with a torque wrench.

[shoestring7]

This morning I changed to winters. As I (90kgs) was bouncing up and down on the end of the tyre wrench trying to undo each nut I did wonder how a 60kg woman was supposed to be able to do it. I remember at the time watching the Tyre Depot guy going round the car with the wrench thinking to myself that he wasn't actually tightening the nut, merely making a nice 'click' noise with his toy.

I did them up to spec. at 100lb/ft and greased the threads, and swore (again) to torque the up correctly myself next time.

SS7

[Eighteeteewhy]

It is a pita. But I expect they are in the mindset of 'rather too tight than too loose'

[m44kts]

Or laziness?

Surely easier to just whack the windy gun on than go round with a torque wrench?

[CoolHands]

9/10 people call the AA now to change their wheel in the event of a puncture. So it doesn't affect most people.

[Ozzie Osmond]

shoestring7 said:

I did them up ... and greased the threads

Don't forget to oil the brake discs while you're about it. Great protection against winter road salt.

[Manicminer]

To be fair a lot of modern car wheels weld themselves to the hub over time and become a right pain to get off even if you get the nuts off.

I always carry one of these in my cars, never fail although you can still struggle a bit.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0012MEK0G/ref=asc_df_B...

[MJK 24]

shoestring7 said:

This morning I changed to winters. As I (90kgs) was bouncing up and down on the end of the tyre wrench trying to undo each nut I did wonder how a 60kg woman was supposed to be able to do it. I remember at the time watching the Tyre Depot guy going round the car with the wrench thinking to myself that he wasn't actually tightening the nut, merely making a nice 'click' noise with his toy.

I did them up to spec. at 100lb/ft and greased the threads, and swore (again) to torque the up correctly myself next time.

SS7

Might be a good idea to tighten them a touch more if you've greased the threads as your torque setting is probably a bit out.

[Silent1]

shoestring7 said:

This morning I changed to winters. As I (90kgs) was bouncing up and down on the end of the tyre wrench trying to undo each nut I did wonder how a 60kg woman was supposed to be able to do it. I remember at the time watching the Tyre Depot guy going round the car with the wrench thinking to myself that he wasn't actually tightening the nut, merely making a nice 'click' noise with his toy.

I did them up to spec. at 100lb/ft and greased the threads, and swore (again) to torque the up correctly myself next time.

SS7

You shouldn't have greased the threads, the spec is set for dry threads, by greasing them you're over torquing the the bolt and potentially damaging the wheel.

[HustleRussell]

MJK 24 said:

Might be a good idea to tighten them a touch more if you've greased the threads as your torque setting is probably a bit out.

The opposite is true; grease the threads and you reduce the friction co.eff. of the threads and the bolt tension will be greater for a given tightening torque.

[Fubar1977]

CoolHands said:

9/10 people call the AA now to change their wheel in the event of a puncture. So it doesn't affect most people.

I think this is a big part of it TBH.
That and the fact that many new cars are now coming with "tyre repair kits" rather than a proper spare wheel, but that`s a whole different rant!

I have now mentioned to the garage that they were too tight and they have assured me they will be torqued correctly in future.
I think most of it is that, as a busy mechanic, it`s just quicker to zip `em up as most people will never attempt to remove their own wheels.

I don`t agree that they are "better too tight" as that will run the risk of damaging both the alloy wheel and the stupid locking nuts, they should be at the right setting for the car.
I`d hope they didn`t take a similar gung-ho approach with cylinder head bolts for example!

[smartphone hater]

Silent1 said:

shoestring7 said:

This morning I changed to winters. As I (90kgs) was bouncing up and down on the end of the tyre wrench trying to undo each nut I did wonder how a 60kg woman was supposed to be able to do it. I remember at the time watching the Tyre Depot guy going round the car with the wrench thinking to myself that he wasn't actually tightening the nut, merely making a nice 'click' noise with his toy.

I did them up to spec. at 100lb/ft and greased the threads, and swore (again) to torque the up correctly myself next time.

SS7

You shouldn't have greased the threads, the spec is set for dry threads, by greasing them you're over torquing the the bolt and potentially damaging the wheel.

Works both ways, I always use a tiny bit of grease on the wheel nut/bolt chamfers if they become "notchy" when tightening, otherwise I'd be under torquing them. I figure it's best to grease & over torque than to not grease & possibly under torque.

[Sump]

Silent1 said:

shoestring7 said:

This morning I changed to winters. As I (90kgs) was bouncing up and down on the end of the tyre wrench trying to undo each nut I did wonder how a 60kg woman was supposed to be able to do it. I remember at the time watching the Tyre Depot guy going round the car with the wrench thinking to myself that he wasn't actually tightening the nut, merely making a nice 'click' noise with his toy.

I did them up to spec. at 100lb/ft and greased the threads, and swore (again) to torque the up correctly myself next time.

SS7

You shouldn't have greased the threads, the spec is set for dry threads, by greasing them you're over torquing the the bolt and potentially damaging the wheel.

Scaremongering at it's finest.

Ignore this OP. You did good adding some anti-seize on there.

The difference between grease and dry on 100ft is going to be barely anything.

[andy-xr]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Don't forget to oil the brake discs while you're about it. Great protection against winter road salt.

I do that too! Stops 'em wearing out as quick.

The tyre place I use have an airgun for taking off and always use a torque wrench for when they go back on.

[yorkebar]

well i suppose, would you rather him charge you for the extra labour of getting the correct tool and spending his time checking and tightening them, or just whizz them up in 2 minutes. costing you less?

[MGgeordie]

Had a new brake caliper fitted to the MGF for the last MOT. The garage have put the wheel nuts on sooo tight that when I tried to remove the wheel the other week it was impossible. I dont know why they have to tighten them up so much.

Oh the reason I had to remove the wheel again.....they hadn't refitted the inner wheelarch cover....binned it instead so I wanted to put another one on. Why do they think its ok to remove parts off your car & not refit them?? Ok so the old cover was a bit shabby but to bin it & say nowt...FFS!!!

[Silent1]

Sump said:

Silent1 said:

shoestring7 said:

This morning I changed to winters. As I (90kgs) was bouncing up and down on the end of the tyre wrench trying to undo each nut I did wonder how a 60kg woman was supposed to be able to do it. I remember at the time watching the Tyre Depot guy going round the car with the wrench thinking to myself that he wasn't actually tightening the nut, merely making a nice 'click' noise with his toy.

I did them up to spec. at 100lb/ft and greased the threads, and swore (again) to torque the up correctly myself next time.

SS7

You shouldn't have greased the threads, the spec is set for dry threads, by greasing them you're over torquing the the bolt and potentially damaging the wheel.

Scaremongering at it's finest.

Ignore this OP. You did good adding some anti-seize on there.

The difference between grease and dry on 100ft is going to be barely anything.

Of course not, thats why every manual one the planet says greased threads should be done up to a lower torque than dry threads, anything from 20% to 50%, how about if you want to disprove something then come back with an educated comment rather than rubbish.

[Sump]

Silent1 said:

Sump said:

Silent1 said:

shoestring7 said:

This morning I changed to winters. As I (90kgs) was bouncing up and down on the end of the tyre wrench trying to undo each nut I did wonder how a 60kg woman was supposed to be able to do it. I remember at the time watching the Tyre Depot guy going round the car with the wrench thinking to myself that he wasn't actually tightening the nut, merely making a nice 'click' noise with his toy.

I did them up to spec. at 100lb/ft and greased the threads, and swore (again) to torque the up correctly myself next time.

SS7

You shouldn't have greased the threads, the spec is set for dry threads, by greasing them you're over torquing the the bolt and potentially damaging the wheel.

Scaremongering at it's finest.

Ignore this OP. You did good adding some anti-seize on there.

The difference between grease and dry on 100ft is going to be barely anything.

Of course not, thats why every manual one the planet says greased threads should be done up to a lower torque than dry threads, anything from 20% to 50%, how about if you want to disprove something then come back with an educated comment rather than rubbish.

Ok so lets say it over does the torque by 20-50%.

That on wheel nuts with anti-seize will be perfectly fine.

This is clearly going to spiral downwards so I'm bailing quickly. ( No it's not because I think I'm wrong etc etc etc . )

[Fubar1977]

yorkebar said:

well i suppose, would you rather him charge you for the extra labour of getting the correct tool and spending his time checking and tightening them, or just whizz them up in 2 minutes. costing you less?

They should be doing it properly in the first place so it`s part of the job I`m already paying for.
Like I said earlier, would they be saving me time and money "whizzing up" the cylinder head bolts for example?