Are RWD Car Really Any Fun?
Discussion
An interesting point was recently raised on the TT forum regarding RWD cars. Many of those who had traded in their Boxsters/Caymans for TTs stated that they much preferred the stability of FWD and AWD TTs, as unlike their previous RWD cars, they just gripped when cornering and they could therefore drive much faster instead of sliding all over the place. For them, the classic scary RWD tail-out behaviour wasn't fun at all, and they're actually having much more fun driving faster confident that all four wheels are stuck firmly to the ground. An interesting take on how driving fun should be defined.
I'd say they were people that weren't very good at driving. I know I sound like a t
t saying that, but frankly if you need near-infinite grip and traction to have fun then you probably don't understand the basic fundaments of car behaviour/control. God forbid one day they'll stumble over the limits of their 4WD system because they'll be going pretty quick when it happens...
t saying that, but frankly if you need near-infinite grip and traction to have fun then you probably don't understand the basic fundaments of car behaviour/control. God forbid one day they'll stumble over the limits of their 4WD system because they'll be going pretty quick when it happens...It just feels more natural to come out of a tightish corner, plant it, and it goes around the corner with a bit of tale-wagging.
FWD progress can be frustrating as you need to square off corners and tbh, I don't have much experience of 4WD but I'm presuming the same for them too.
Basically, RWD demands a more fluid driving style but ultimately for me is more enjoyable. If they are complaining about 'sliding all over the place' they aren't good drivers.
FWD progress can be frustrating as you need to square off corners and tbh, I don't have much experience of 4WD but I'm presuming the same for them too.
Basically, RWD demands a more fluid driving style but ultimately for me is more enjoyable. If they are complaining about 'sliding all over the place' they aren't good drivers.
Sounds like a pretty odd point to me given I tried all I could to get my BIL's Cayman S to wag it's tail but the traction control was so advanced it stuck to country lane bends like glue.
Unless they turned TC off and really abused them, I can't understand how anyone could consider a Boxter or Cayman unstable.
Unless they turned TC off and really abused them, I can't understand how anyone could consider a Boxter or Cayman unstable.
HustleRussell said:
I'd say they were people that weren't very good at driving. I know I sound like a tt saying that, but frankly if you need near-infinite grip and traction to have fun then you probably don't understand the basic fundaments of car behaviour/control. God forbid one day they'll stumble over the limits of their 4WD system because they'll be going pretty quick when it happens...
i know i am not very good, which is why i like 4WD, when i do get it wrong the car behaves very predictably and pretty neutrally (ie it wont spin)t saying that, but frankly if you need near-infinite grip and traction to have fun then you probably don't understand the basic fundaments of car behaviour/control. God forbid one day they'll stumble over the limits of their 4WD system because they'll be going pretty quick when it happens...also i get to use 100% throttle in the wet all the time
kambites said:
For me RWD isn't about power over-steer, it's about traction, chassis balance and steering response. My car doesn't have enough grunt to power over-steer but it'd be rubbish as FWD.
Same with the MR2 Roadster.Although a lot of the responsiveness/balance is probably due to the engine locaton. The fact it's RWD is just a side effect
Dave Hedgehog said:
also i get to use 100% throttle in the wet all the time
I think that comment possibly highlights the fundamental difference in preferences, or at least part of it. For me the ability to use full throttle all the time is a bad thing because it means there's no skill in throttle modulation which completely removes one dimension from the driving experience; but some people see it as a positive. The good old 4wd vs FWD vs RWD opinion.
Depends on what you see as driving 'fun'.
To me its pointless aiming for endless grip on public roads when there are speed limits.
I am one of the types that look for car control on/beyond the limit as being 'fun', and this means RWD for public roads. This can easily be achieved within many of the speed limits.
This is not about 'risk' 'responsibility' and all the other health and safety carp, its just about being able to have some car control fun at lower speeds than you normally require with 4WD for example. And trying to do any type of limit car control in FWD is usually just boring after any more than two or three goes.
All subjective of course, others will have their own opinions.
Depends on what you see as driving 'fun'.
To me its pointless aiming for endless grip on public roads when there are speed limits.
I am one of the types that look for car control on/beyond the limit as being 'fun', and this means RWD for public roads. This can easily be achieved within many of the speed limits.
This is not about 'risk' 'responsibility' and all the other health and safety carp, its just about being able to have some car control fun at lower speeds than you normally require with 4WD for example. And trying to do any type of limit car control in FWD is usually just boring after any more than two or three goes.
All subjective of course, others will have their own opinions.
yes they are.When I first got mine I powered off a wet roundabout ~40mph, the back came out very quickly and aggressivly, if it wasn't for the driver aids I would have been pulling my car out of a barrier after about 3weeks of ownership.
Saying that, after papping myself for months whenever I came on power in the wet I am now starting to be able to control it. Rwd is a lot more challenging to drive briskly than fwd or awd, smooth inputs are required. But when you do get a corner right and the car undulates nicely as the back checks around it feels like your on top of the world
Ability to drive much faster (when the most basic shopping trolley nowadays has higher limits than the law or society will allow to be exploited) = more fun? Surely some mistake...
If people are unintendedly 'sliding all over the place' in their Boxsters and Caymen in anything but snowy/icy conditions, then frankly I wouldn't want to share public roads with them.
If people are unintendedly 'sliding all over the place' in their Boxsters and Caymen in anything but snowy/icy conditions, then frankly I wouldn't want to share public roads with them.
I can certainly see where the OP is coming from. To a large extent I agree because there really is only a relatively small number of drivers who can really control a RWD car to such an degree that they have a advantage over fwd/awd.
If you believe this forum you'd think 90% of the owners of RWD cars really ought to enter the BDC when to be honest I'd wager there are more people scared of RWD than there are who can utilise it fully.
I realise that straight away people who love RWD will attack those who like the TT and suggest the TT drivers know nothing about performance/sports/good handling cars......
If you believe this forum you'd think 90% of the owners of RWD cars really ought to enter the BDC when to be honest I'd wager there are more people scared of RWD than there are who can utilise it fully.
I realise that straight away people who love RWD will attack those who like the TT and suggest the TT drivers know nothing about performance/sports/good handling cars......
900T-R said:
Ability to drive much faster (when the most basic shopping trolley nowadays has higher limits than the law or society will allow to be exploited) = more fun? Surely some mistake...
If people are unintendedly 'sliding all over the place' in their Boxsters and Caymen in anything but snowy/icy conditions, then frankly I wouldn't want to share public roads with them.
I think that depends on what you mean - obviously lurid over-steer on poorly-sighted public roads is idiotic, but there are places that you can safely push a car to the limits of its grip and then use the throttle to subtly adjust the line. You're not generating enough slip-angle that a passenger would notice it let alone someone outside the car, but it's still fun. If people are unintendedly 'sliding all over the place' in their Boxsters and Caymen in anything but snowy/icy conditions, then frankly I wouldn't want to share public roads with them.
Of course you can do that whichever wheels are driven if the car is any good, though.
kambites said:
I think that depends on what you mean - obviously lurid over-steer on poorly-sighted public roads is idiotic, but there are places that you can safely push a car to the limits of its grip and then use the throttle to subtly adjust the line. You're not generating enough slip-angle that a passenger would notice it let alone someone outside the car, but it's still fun.
Note my use of the word 'unintendedly' - according to the OP the drivers themselves were complaining rather than actively looking for the limits of grip...900T-R said:
kambites said:
I think that depends on what you mean - obviously lurid over-steer on poorly-sighted public roads is idiotic, but there are places that you can safely push a car to the limits of its grip and then use the throttle to subtly adjust the line. You're not generating enough slip-angle that a passenger would notice it let alone someone outside the car, but it's still fun.
Note my use of the word 'unintendedly' - according to the OP the drivers themselves were complaining rather than actively looking for the limits of grip...kambites said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
also i get to use 100% throttle in the wet all the time
I think that comment possibly highlights the fundamental difference in preferences, or at least part of it. For me the ability to use full throttle all the time is a bad thing because it means there's no skill in throttle modulation which completely removes one dimension from the driving experience; but some people see it as a positive. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff