Problems with a brand new Ford Focus ST
Discussion
Chaps,
Would appreciate advice on the following:
Purchased a brand-new Ford Focus ST from a Ford dealer (in Scotland, if that makes any difference legally) and took delivery on 30th September.
I then had an issue with the car on Thursday 25th October, with less than 750 miles on the clock. Car cut out going round a roundabout taking a sliproad onto a motorway, managed to coast into the hard shoulder on the slip, car wouldn't restart and the AA couldn't fix at the side of the road. Car had to be recovered back to the supplying dealer who diagnosed a blown fuse in the 'control flaps' at the front of the car - these (I think) open and close to allow more/less air into the radiator to make the car heat up quicker in the morning (which I assume makes the car more economical). Car was returned to me on Monday 29th October.
Fast forward to yesterday, car felt slightly hesitant on the way into work yesterday morning, felt like it was miss-firing but only very slightly, didn't give it a huge amount of thought but it was on the back of my mind to try to see if I could feel the same issue again on the way home from work. Definitely could feel it on the way home but everything else seemed to be well and traffic was heavy so I decided to wait until after 9pm last night when the traffic was a bit lighter and took the car out for a run. Again, seemed to be hesitant/stuttering but only slightly, until I drove round a rounabout and the car hesitated massively and the engine management light on the dash came on.
Car didn't go into limp mode but the light stayed on all the way from home to the supplying dealer this morning, still hesitating slightly, dealer now tells me they won't be able to look at the car until later this afternoon and are unable to supply me with a courtesy car. Angry doesn't quite adequately describe how I am feeling, car has slightly less then 1300 miles on it now and it's had one breakdown and now another engine issue.
Where do I go from here?
In the short term I want my car fixed today (in time for me collecting my daughter from school at 3:20pm) or since it looks unlikely that my car will be repaired and returned to me in time to do that, I want a vehicle from the dealer and/or Ford in order to get me home. So I shall need to start getting on the phone shouting and swearing at the dealer/dealers head office/ford customer service.
Longer term I would appreciate advice on where I go from here in terms of perhaps rejecting the car, I honestly don't believe I am at that point yet but two engine issues within 2 months of purchase is not inspiring me with confidence for the future. At what point would you, in this scenario, start considering pushing the dealer for your money back or the supply of a new car?
Thanks for reading, looking for advice but was also wanting a wee bit of a rant!
Would appreciate advice on the following:
Purchased a brand-new Ford Focus ST from a Ford dealer (in Scotland, if that makes any difference legally) and took delivery on 30th September.
I then had an issue with the car on Thursday 25th October, with less than 750 miles on the clock. Car cut out going round a roundabout taking a sliproad onto a motorway, managed to coast into the hard shoulder on the slip, car wouldn't restart and the AA couldn't fix at the side of the road. Car had to be recovered back to the supplying dealer who diagnosed a blown fuse in the 'control flaps' at the front of the car - these (I think) open and close to allow more/less air into the radiator to make the car heat up quicker in the morning (which I assume makes the car more economical). Car was returned to me on Monday 29th October.
Fast forward to yesterday, car felt slightly hesitant on the way into work yesterday morning, felt like it was miss-firing but only very slightly, didn't give it a huge amount of thought but it was on the back of my mind to try to see if I could feel the same issue again on the way home from work. Definitely could feel it on the way home but everything else seemed to be well and traffic was heavy so I decided to wait until after 9pm last night when the traffic was a bit lighter and took the car out for a run. Again, seemed to be hesitant/stuttering but only slightly, until I drove round a rounabout and the car hesitated massively and the engine management light on the dash came on.
Car didn't go into limp mode but the light stayed on all the way from home to the supplying dealer this morning, still hesitating slightly, dealer now tells me they won't be able to look at the car until later this afternoon and are unable to supply me with a courtesy car. Angry doesn't quite adequately describe how I am feeling, car has slightly less then 1300 miles on it now and it's had one breakdown and now another engine issue.
Where do I go from here?
In the short term I want my car fixed today (in time for me collecting my daughter from school at 3:20pm) or since it looks unlikely that my car will be repaired and returned to me in time to do that, I want a vehicle from the dealer and/or Ford in order to get me home. So I shall need to start getting on the phone shouting and swearing at the dealer/dealers head office/ford customer service.
Longer term I would appreciate advice on where I go from here in terms of perhaps rejecting the car, I honestly don't believe I am at that point yet but two engine issues within 2 months of purchase is not inspiring me with confidence for the future. At what point would you, in this scenario, start considering pushing the dealer for your money back or the supply of a new car?
Thanks for reading, looking for advice but was also wanting a wee bit of a rant!
If the dealer can't supply you with a courtesy car (which is understandable, they only have so many and usually not at very short notice) then take it to one that can.
You won't be getting your money back any time soon, not for two relatively minor faults. You just need to be forceful with Ford until they resolve the problem to your satisfaction. It's a brand new car that has only just been released to the public, it's understandable that there may be teething problems.
You won't be getting your money back any time soon, not for two relatively minor faults. You just need to be forceful with Ford until they resolve the problem to your satisfaction. It's a brand new car that has only just been released to the public, it's understandable that there may be teething problems.
Edited by Howard- on Thursday 15th November 09:28
I'd give the dealer every chance to investigate and resolve.
I'd also look to use another dealer if yours cannot help you in your timescales.
No idea on the rules and regs of rejecting the cr though.
Poor start to a new car, horrible when that happens so soon after handing over a large wad of hard-earned. Had it on an Audi A6, coupled with the fact that the dealers were knobs. All in all got me off to a bad start with the car which never fully recovered. Sold it a couple of years later and have never bought another Audi since. As a result I also don't have much positive to say to those who are thinking of buying one.
I'd also look to use another dealer if yours cannot help you in your timescales.
No idea on the rules and regs of rejecting the cr though.
Poor start to a new car, horrible when that happens so soon after handing over a large wad of hard-earned. Had it on an Audi A6, coupled with the fact that the dealers were knobs. All in all got me off to a bad start with the car which never fully recovered. Sold it a couple of years later and have never bought another Audi since. As a result I also don't have much positive to say to those who are thinking of buying one.
Whilst unfortunate this is why new cars have warranties, they go wrong, its a small annoying fact of life. A dealer is not obliged to supply you with a courtesy car either (s
t as that may be) Ringing Ford customer services might be an idea if only to put this on their radar but they wont push the dealer to give you a courtesy car and they wont really be that interested as the dealer has booked it in the same day for you..
Has the service otherwise been ok from them?
t as that may be) Ringing Ford customer services might be an idea if only to put this on their radar but they wont push the dealer to give you a courtesy car and they wont really be that interested as the dealer has booked it in the same day for you..Has the service otherwise been ok from them?
Sorry to hear about your problems OP and I've had a similar situation myself and it's extremely frustrating.
If you're starting to have a few problems with the car make sure you document all the issues and all conversations/visits to the dealer.
You have to give the dealer a reasonable opportunity to fix the issues at this stage but if the problems continue a meeting with the Dealer Principle along with all your documentation would be advised.
Surely the dealer has a demo they can lend you for a day or two until they've had a chance to look at your car? I spent two weeks driving the Dealer Principles company car when I had problems with a new car I had!
If you're starting to have a few problems with the car make sure you document all the issues and all conversations/visits to the dealer.
You have to give the dealer a reasonable opportunity to fix the issues at this stage but if the problems continue a meeting with the Dealer Principle along with all your documentation would be advised.
Surely the dealer has a demo they can lend you for a day or two until they've had a chance to look at your car? I spent two weeks driving the Dealer Principles company car when I had problems with a new car I had!
The AGS wouldn't cause the car to stop all together. It would cause it to go in to limp mode. The MIL light only comes on when emissions are affected. If the engine was simply overheating due to lack of rad airflow, it wouldn't - it'd derate.
Sounds like something in the control system.
Sounds like something in the control system.
Ok, had a call from the service director at the dealers. Fault is showing fuel pressure, guy tells me the car has taken "a gulp of air" from the tank because the car is low on fuel. When I dropped the car off this morning it was showing 20 miles to empty, but when the problems first started appearing there was a quarter of a tank in it.
Service director said he experienced the heavy hesitation when he took it out a run going round a roundabout and is going to speak to Ford about this, as he believes the car isn't geting any fuel when the fuel sloshes to the left side of tank under heavy right-hand turns (i.e. roundabouts). My argument is that the car does this heavy hesitation regardless of the fuel level (i've had the car fail to accelerate/die for a couple of seconds when cornering heavily round a roundabout when the tank was three-quarters full) and surely the pick-up inside the fuel tank should be in a place where it can get most access to the avialable fuel!
I know it's not a race car and doesn't have a baffle inside the tank to prevent fuel sloshing about but the car should still operate normally on all fuel levels, bar it being completely empty!
Service director said he experienced the heavy hesitation when he took it out a run going round a roundabout and is going to speak to Ford about this, as he believes the car isn't geting any fuel when the fuel sloshes to the left side of tank under heavy right-hand turns (i.e. roundabouts). My argument is that the car does this heavy hesitation regardless of the fuel level (i've had the car fail to accelerate/die for a couple of seconds when cornering heavily round a roundabout when the tank was three-quarters full) and surely the pick-up inside the fuel tank should be in a place where it can get most access to the avialable fuel!
I know it's not a race car and doesn't have a baffle inside the tank to prevent fuel sloshing about but the car should still operate normally on all fuel levels, bar it being completely empty!
As said, you have to give the dealership full opportunity to resolve the issues before even considering money-back options. To be fair, they sound decent so far.
In the past, I have always found a call to Ford Customer Relations useful, if you feel the need to do so in the near future.
http://www.ford.co.uk/Footer/ContactUs
In the past, I have always found a call to Ford Customer Relations useful, if you feel the need to do so in the near future.
http://www.ford.co.uk/Footer/ContactUs
Howard- said:
If the dealer can't supply you with a courtesy car (which is understandable, they only have so many and usually not at very short notice) then take it to one that can.
You won't be getting your money back any time soon, not for two relatively minor faults. You just need to be forceful with Ford until they resolve the problem to your satisfaction. It's a brand new car that has only just been released to the public, it's understandable that there may be teething problems.
Ok, i'll drive a car with an obvious engine issue (that has previously broken down & left me stranded) to a dealer who can supply me with a courtesy car. You won't be getting your money back any time soon, not for two relatively minor faults. You just need to be forceful with Ford until they resolve the problem to your satisfaction. It's a brand new car that has only just been released to the public, it's understandable that there may be teething problems.
Or, how about, I take it directly back to the dealer who supplied me with the car, the dealer who has over £26K of my money happily sitting in my account and ask them to sort out a vehicle to get me home. A dealer who is part of a massive chain of dealerships & has plenty of stock of demonstrators, even possibly over 100 used cars sitting around their premises that I could use for a day or two.
Dealers should care about the service they provide post-sale. Failing to provide a courtesy vehicle to a man just in off the street that they've never done business with before is perhaps understandable, going the extra mile for a customer who has only recently purchased a brand-new vehicle from their very premises is perfectly reasonable to expect.
Oh - and "teething problems" and "minor faults" - utter tosh. A fault that leaves a car with less than 750 miles on the clock stranded at the side of the motorway and involves recovery back to the garage because the AA couldn't diagnose the fault isn't an minor fault. Also, ford would have extensively tested these vehicles in all kinds of environments for weeks (if not months) before they were released for sale so there shouldn't be ANY teething issues. They should have been ironed out in testing. There are videos on Youtube of the team responsible for producing the ST of them testing the car in America.
I had the same on a new A3, kept cutting out etc. When the dealer came to get it they had no loan car. I phoned up customer services and told them I couldn't take this anymore, I needed a car to be reliable, I need a car to get to work etc etc. They were quite nice and told me to take a taxi everywhere (on them) until a loan car turned up, a brand new 307 (?) turned up at 5 o clock and i gave Audi about £100 of taxi bills for the day. To be fair to them they paid it all without question.
OP ring the Ford CS up, you're car is very new, not unreasonable to expect them to sort a loan car for you.
OP ring the Ford CS up, you're car is very new, not unreasonable to expect them to sort a loan car for you.
oobster said:
Oh - and "teething problems" and "minor faults" - utter tosh. A fault that leaves a car with less than 750 miles on the clock stranded at the side of the motorway and involves recovery back to the garage because the AA couldn't diagnose the fault isn't an minor fault. Also, ford would have extensively tested these vehicles in all kinds of environments for weeks (if not months) before they were released for sale so there shouldn't be ANY teething issues. They should have been ironed out in testing. There are videos on Youtube of the team responsible for producing the ST of them testing the car in America.
Have you never heard of vehicle recalls? It's a bit naive to think that no car in the world could generate faults that slip through the net when being tested.And I said "relatively minor fault". A major fault would be a piston exploding its way through the engine block.
It must be hugely frustrating but IMO you have no grounds to reject the car.
Give them chance to fix the current problem When you collect the car insist on the Service manager going out with you for a run to make sure the problem has been solved and make sure its got plenty of fuel in it.
I've never had a car old or modern hesitate when low on fuel and I run mine pretty low.
I do think its unreasonable of the dealer not to loan you a car. I can guarantee all the salesmen and senior managers had cars to home in!
Nothing like putting yourself out for the customer!
Give them chance to fix the current problem When you collect the car insist on the Service manager going out with you for a run to make sure the problem has been solved and make sure its got plenty of fuel in it.
I've never had a car old or modern hesitate when low on fuel and I run mine pretty low.
I do think its unreasonable of the dealer not to loan you a car. I can guarantee all the salesmen and senior managers had cars to home in!
Nothing like putting yourself out for the customer!
Howard- said:
Have you never heard of vehicle recalls? It's a bit naive to think that no car in the world could generate faults that slip through the net when being tested.
And I said "relatively minor fault". A major fault would be a piston exploding its way through the engine block.
It may be just a "relatively minor fault", but it has still left him stranded at the side of the motorway. These faults can sometimes be the worst to diagnose.And I said "relatively minor fault". A major fault would be a piston exploding its way through the engine block.
I don't think the dealerships customer service is good enough, I'm sure they could've sourced a car for you from somewhere.
amirzed said:
I had the same on a new A3, kept cutting out etc. When the dealer came to get it they had no loan car. I phoned up customer services and told them I couldn't take this anymore, I needed a car to be reliable, I need a car to get to work etc etc. They were quite nice and told me to take a taxi everywhere (on them) until a loan car turned up, a brand new 307 (?) turned up at 5 o clock and i gave Audi about £100 of taxi bills for the day. To be fair to them they paid it all without question.
OP ring the Ford CS up, you're car is very new, not unreasonable to expect them to sort a loan car for you.
The service director at my dealer has said they would either have my car back to me today or would provide me with one of their demonstrators. Why is it that I need to go higher up the management chain to receive the service I would expect the service reception staff to provide!OP ring the Ford CS up, you're car is very new, not unreasonable to expect them to sort a loan car for you.
It wasn't "I don't think we've got anything available for you sir but i'll certainly check if there is a demonstrator available and get back to you" - it was just a "there is nothing" take it or leave it attitude that got on my man boobs.
oobster said:
There are videos on Youtube of the team responsible for producing the ST of them testing the car in America.
They weren't testing, it's a bit of an industry taboo that nobody will speak about, so think of me as a whistle-blower.Hot weather testing in Nevada? Nope. They actually park up and hit a fully expensed week in Vegas.
Cold weather facilities in Finland? Don't be naive. They park up and have a massive industry snowball fight whilst keep their bar bills ready to expense back on their return.
Suspension calibration in Spain And Italy? Yeah right, open all those boxes full of wires you see in the pics - full of swimming short, flip flops and sun glasses.
"You tested it?"
"Yup"
"In all conditions?"
"Yeah, you've got the receipts I've submitted - been nearly everywhere in that thing"
"OK, well done, we'll get it built"
That's why new cars have faults. It's true.
oobster said:
The service director at my dealer has said they would either have my car back to me today or would provide me with one of their demonstrators. Why is it that I need to go higher up the management chain to receive the service I would expect the service reception staff to provide!
It wasn't "I don't think we've got anything available for you sir but i'll certainly check if there is a demonstrator available and get back to you" - it was just a "there is nothing" take it or leave it attitude that got on my man boobs.
It's definitely not good enough customer service IMO.It wasn't "I don't think we've got anything available for you sir but i'll certainly check if there is a demonstrator available and get back to you" - it was just a "there is nothing" take it or leave it attitude that got on my man boobs.
VW supplied me with a new Polo for 2 weeks whilst my 9 year old, 135000 mile Passat got 2 new wings and a bootlid all replaced under warranty!
Matt UK said:
oobster said:
There are videos on Youtube of the team responsible for producing the ST of them testing the car in America.
They weren't testing, it's a bit of an industry taboo that nobody will speak about, so think of me as a whistle-blower.Hot weather testing in Nevada? Nope. They actually park up and hit a fully expensed week in Vegas.
Cold weather facilities in Finland? Don't be naive. They park up and have a massive industry snowball fight whilst keep their bar bills ready to expense back on their return.
Suspension calibration in Spain And Italy? Yeah right, open all those boxes full of wires you see in the pics - full of swimming short, flip flops and sun glasses.
"You tested it?"
"Yup"
"In all conditions?"
"Yeah, you've got the receipts I've submitted - been nearly everywhere in that thing"
"OK, well done, we'll get it built"
That's why new cars have faults. It's true.
GroundEffect said:
Matt UK said:
oobster said:
There are videos on Youtube of the team responsible for producing the ST of them testing the car in America.
They weren't testing, it's a bit of an industry taboo that nobody will speak about, so think of me as a whistle-blower.Hot weather testing in Nevada? Nope. They actually park up and hit a fully expensed week in Vegas.
Cold weather facilities in Finland? Don't be naive. They park up and have a massive industry snowball fight whilst keep their bar bills ready to expense back on their return.
Suspension calibration in Spain And Italy? Yeah right, open all those boxes full of wires you see in the pics - full of swimming short, flip flops and sun glasses.
"You tested it?"
"Yup"
"In all conditions?"
"Yeah, you've got the receipts I've submitted - been nearly everywhere in that thing"
"OK, well done, we'll get it built"
That's why new cars have faults. It's true.
BOBTEE said:
You're entitled to a car under Ford Assist/The AA but you need to have broken down and ask for it. It will be supplied by Enterprise and paid for by Ford, not the dealer.
Yes, I was given a courtesy car through the AA when my Focus broke down in late October. A very nice Vauxhall Insignia Elite! Looks like the short-term problem of either my car back or a vehicle to get me home this afternoon is sorted, need to think about what happens now with my car though. If this new issue is resolved quickly and stays fixed then fine, it'll annoy me but in the big grand scheme of things it's not significant but if this particular issue rumbles on for days/weeks or another new issue springs up in the near future then I'll need to consider what options I have.
One option I don't have is throwing away potentially thousands of pounds by selling the car.
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